Generation Cedar

Though feminism has been touted as “all about protecting women”, feminism has killed more women than the holocaust and all other wars put together. Feminism has brought a steady increase in violent crimes against women. Feminism has attempted to stamp out the importance of motherhood, mothers raising their children and the stability of home life, evidenced in an ever-increasing cycle of individual break down, marital breakdown, family breakdown and societal breakdown.

And we’re happy about this?

And now, still not content with the damage they’ve done, we’re on the brink of erasing all protective measures of our women in the military. Because seeing our daughters drafted to war one day would be the final triumph and ultimate celebration. (*sarcasm)

In Sweden, you can send your child to a gender-free preschool so he, I’m sorry, so “your child” can be de-brainwashed from the “dangerous indoctrination” that there is a difference between male and female.

A mom of a preschooler in NY is outraged because her son’s teacher encourages “gentlemanly” behavior, specifically, encouraging boys to let girls go first. “This adorable little boy, who is only beginning to learn the ways of the world, just got his first lesson in sexism…” Without even defending why I think she’s wrong, here’s a tip: if you aren’t willing to teach your own son what you want him to learn about the world, don’t complain about his teacher’s worldview.

If feminism ever had, somewhere within its core, a sincere desire to protect women and prevent abuses (and I think some at least thought that was what they were fighting for), it has gone badly awry, scoffed at the Creator in the most disgusting way, and we are reaping the judgement of our own foolishness. While I’m not naive to the real abuses women have suffered, the feminist answer was the wrong one.

Steven Wedgeworth, in Women at War said something profound–something of which we must ALL remember and remind ourselves:

“We need to make this message plain: Feminism is chauvinism. It shares the belief that traditional “women’s roles” are undesirable and second best. As such, it seeks to make women as much like men as possible. The irony in all of this is that it is almost always a step down….It should also be obvious that this means a net loss for humanity. (Emphasis mine.) Whereas we previously had more, man and woman, we now have less, man and man-aping woman.”

and, this is key:

“The home used to be a center of agriculture, economic affairs, and education. For the woman to be a “homemaker” was to be an executive over the central nervous system of society. It was to be a master of arts. It was to be a farmer. It was to be a maker. It was to be a temple, a sacrament, a superlative. Perhaps I’m idealizing things a bit, as the past could indeed be quite dull and gloomy for all genders. Still, I don’t think I’m saying anything that Dorothy Sayers didn’t already say. The home used to be the place of oikonomia. As it lost that function, the notion that anyone would be stuck there became torment. To combat self-alienation, we’ve got to recover a true sense of “the home.” In what ways can it be that place of central affairs today, or perhaps more importantly, what analogous locations (and vocations) can we emphasize as especially important for “home” life?”

Our view of home changed our view of women. The true view of women never needed to be defended. We only needed to go back to the original design, glory in our created differences, and let the Creator, who knows how to best run His universe, tell us what is best for us.

“To win the war against women, we have to prioritize women.”

Home must be revived and restored to mean more than “a place people sleep and sometimes eat.” We must persuade the masses, again, that shaping the next generation is a pretty big deal and needs a full time, devoted, intelligent, powerful, wise mother to do the job. We must find and relish our real power–that the Lord has given us–for ruling the world.

Also, don’t miss this excellent article, by Col. John Ripley. on The Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces.

163 Responses

  1. I love love love your blog. I have been reading it for a few months now, and as a young mom it has really been inspirational. It has made me think about things in a different way. We can get so brainwashed without ever realizing it. I’m so thankful for the way God can open up eyes and hearts to see truth. Thank you!

  2. “Without even defending why I think she’s wrong, here’s a tip: if you aren’t willing to teach your own son what you want him to learn about the world, don’t complain about his teacher’s worldview.”


  3. Great post! I am finding it very difficult indeed to convince the masses (or even close friends and family) though. 🙁 All in God’s timing I suppose! Thank you!

  4. We had this discussion last Sunday night coming home from church on Women in combat. I have four sons-two in their 20’s and two teens. What an INTERESTING discussion we all had.

    They gave me lots of reasons..without me even asking, why they believe Women Should Not be in combat. The feminists might argue that they want equal rights, the same chance to advance their careers.

    My son said..How does a woman expect to carry a man off the battlefield. How is a man..not going to want to protect a woman.

    These were just a couple of remarks as they all piped in about concerns. They were not sexist remarks. Just honest questions and that only covers the military!The thought of their sister’s or future daughters being drafted was horrifying to them.

    Personally, I see a lot of feminism in the church also!

    1. I think that’s totally true! No matter how women want to be the same as men, they aren’t and never will be. God created us differently, in different forms, because our roles are different. I was watching the news the other day, and they were talking about how allowing women in the front lines may actually harm our troops, because like you said, no matter how strong they are, it’s going to be much more difficult for them to carry a 200 pound soldier off the field. However, I’m not sure that letting women serve in combat will actually have that much of an effect, as they only pick the biggest, strongest, most skilled men and very few women will fit the requirements.

  5. I just left a comment on LAF that I would do my best to move out of this country before I would let my daughter be drafted. It would be wonderful if this never comes to pass, but the way things have been going in this country lately, it would not surprise me if it did. What are you prepared to do if they want to draft your daughter(s) into military, possible front line combat? In a previous post you dealt with the topic of being prepared, and we must be prepared with what we are to do if they decide to draft our daughters. This is reality, even if it seems surreal. It feels like a nightmare to me.

    1. They would a “conscientious objector”. They would not have to service in the military for religious reasons. Just like the Amish and Quakers are not required to in the event of a draft. Women are drafted in Israel. Please research how it is handled there.

  6. For those of you wanting to convince people of the reality women will face on the front lines in combat, you might want to point them to this article at the Wall Street Journal. “Ryan Smith: The Reality That Awaits Women in Combat”. Caution: this is not a pleasant read.

    And after reading it, I’ll ask, how, pray tell, will women handle “that time of the month” in conditions like the ones described? Beyond sobering.

  7. I completely agree that feminism has really done a whole lot of damage to women in recent years, although I think that there are some good things that it has brought about.

    This might be a tad long, but your post reminded me of a quote in Claire Smith’s recent (and excellent) book God’s Good Design (about what Scripture says about gender roles)in which she writes, “The gender-based inequality that feminism in its most basic form seeks to correct is contrary to God’s purposes. So although we might not agree with the diagnosis or treatment that feminism prescribes, the symptoms and problems it identifies are real. And feminism has brought some change for the good: women can now vote, own property, have bank accounts and an unrestricted education, and sit at board tables; rape in marriage is now a criminal offense; violence against women is now a community concern; fathers are now more involved with their children; and so on. It is a shame it was left to the feminists to force these changes, but they are good changes that sit well with God’s love for justice and for all those he has made. However, we cannot make the mistake of thinking that ONLY feminism could have brought these gains. The good of feminism is entirely dependent on its reform agenda being consistent with God’s reform agenda. Where it seeks to correct things that are contrary to God’s good purposes – and that are due to the sin of BOTH men and women – then, without intending to do so, feminism can advance God’s plans for justice, peace,and his glory…The flipside of this is that where the agenda of feminism is DIFFERENT from God’s agenda (which is most of the time), it is working against God’s purposes and can only bring misery…”


    1. That’s a pretty good statement–for sure, “The good of feminism is entirely dependent on its reform agenda being consistent with God’s reform agenda. Where it seeks to correct things that are contrary to God’s good purposes – and that are due to the sin of BOTH men and women – then, without intending to do so, feminism can advance God’s plans for justice, peace,and his glory…The flipside of this is that where the agenda of feminism is DIFFERENT from God’s agenda (which is most of the time), it is working against God’s purposes and can only bring misery…”

      Yet, because feminism has largely brought things contrary to God’s purposes, it cannot be concluded that feminism was the right and good thing. Returning to the principles of God’s Word is the good and right and only thing that brings about a healthy society. (And no, I’m not talking about the OT abuses where women were treated as property.) But even in this example, he mentions “women can now vote”. Technically, women not being allowed to vote wasn’t a bad thing. It was never that “men can vote but women can’t”. It was simply that households, united in purpose and thought, voted. The feminist used that and twisted it, to further their perceived inequality.

      1. I think it also seems like it’s this latest wave of feminism (within the last 50 years or so) that has done the most damage. Probably most women have embraced some feminist thought without intending too because it’s so prevalent and embedded in society. Even though I hate what feminism has done recently (demeaning moms, abortion rights, now women in combat), I have a hard time wishing I could go back to a time when all those good things didn’t exist. I don’t think I would wish away my ability to cast my own personal vote or not have a college education. I just wish that the movement hadn’t gotten so perverse as it progressed, but I suppose that’s what happens when you start off without a biblical foundation.

      2. I think that the early feminist movement was a good thing. Although of course the ideal was that husbands and wives would confer together to decide who the household, led by the husband, would vote for, that was not the reality. Many women weren’t married, or widowed, or their husbands had left them. Many men treated women as garbage, although I think not as much as people assume. So I think the early feminist movement did a good thing by fighting for the right to vote. I think it’s the same thing as with a college education. I am glad i have the opportunity to go to college. Of course, I don’t want to go for a career, but to gain more knowledge and a degree so that I can teach my children better. And however distasteful, I also have to be prepared for the fact that I may never get the opportunity to be married. But the new wave of feminism was wrong. Instead of saying that women were equal to men, which is right, they twisted it around to say that women should have the same roles and responsibilities as men. Some even think that women are better or greater than men, which is completely false. God created men and women equally. He loves each of us equally. We are each equally important to Him, and to the world. But our roles, the reasons for our importance, are different from each other. Women have the responsibility, whenever possible, to raise children in righteousness to God. There is no greater thing that a woman can do. Men are responsible for providing for their families, and helping the wife to teach. They are responsible for protecting. That is why it is a man’s responsibility to fight in war. It is his divine job, mandated by God, to protect his family.

    2. I think feminism gets a lot more “credit” than it deserves. Progress for both sexes was inevitable. During the industrial revolution, men left the farms because machines could do their work. Women left the home for the same reason. Machines did the work. Feminism got started because women had time on their hands to stand around protesting. They weren’t leaving the laundry undone or the children unfed to go to the suffragette meetings. Those meetings may have shortened a lot of the time tables, but when you consider that women went from doing everything for the home to never being at home in a little less than 100 years, I don’t think you can credit that to a few suffragette meetings.

  8. So if we are opposed to the feminist agenda because we believe there are immutable differences between men and women, what do we call ourselves? Feminine-ists?

    1. Women? “Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman,because she was taken out of Man.”” (Genesis 2:23 ESV)

  9. The other thing I meant to say (but it’s a separate thought so I’ll just start another comment) is that last night, I was just having a discussion with a group of women during a Bible study about how society does not value motherhood. We were talking about how we want to make it a priority to verbalize to our daughters how wonderful it is to make motherhood and homemaking the first priority, and to model an enjoyment of the role to counteract the negative perceptions that feminism has created. And for those of us who have only boys (like me), we want to raise them to want a wife who will be a good mother, to value motherhood as men, to make sure they provide for their families so that their wife can stay home,etc. It’s a big job.

  10. I am always surprised that people are so happy to throw around Holocaust comparisons. It’s as if they have no respect, no sympathy, and no understanding of the true horror that occurred. People act as if that disgusting crime is merely a rhetorical tool. This happens on the Internet very often: Person I disagree with = Hitler, thing I disagree with = the Holocaust. I think these kinds of comparisons reflect a real lack of character in this current generation.

    Please reflect on the Holocaust. Try to conceptualize the scale of it, try to think of the victims, research what they had to go to, try to imagine the pain and fear. Really think about it! Maybe that way it will stop being used as if it’s some cheap internet meme.

    1. Alice,

      Your comment makes no sense. I’m not “de-horrifying” the holocaust; I’m raising the horrors of the abortion holocaust to its rightful place. I have reflected on the holocaust more than I care to. I’ve read about it, studied it and can barely take in its horrors. Does that make the thousands of babies massacred (yes, taken apart, limb by limb) any less horrific? You are the one, I’m afraid, who needs to really ponder.

      1. A 12-year-old boy being bundled onto a train can know what he’s leaving behind and can suspect what’s coming. A 30-year-old man on a death march can feel his body wearing down. 15-year-old girl can know that typhus is ripping through the camps, taking away what is left of the people she loves. A 28-year-old woman can know that she’s being marched towards the gas chambers.

        If you are comparing this to abortion… a fetus that has not yet developed the biological ability to feel pain does not feel pain. An embryo cannot know what is coming, it cannot know much of anything. A fetus that has a condition that is incompatible with life will not be ABLE to live just because you prevent its mother from having an abortion.

        1. If it makes you feel better to pretend the “fetus” doesn’t feel pain (13,000 babies a year are killed beyond the age of 20 weeks, viable for life outside the womb and yes, completely aware of pain), or that most abortions are performed on babies who have life-threatening conditions (they are not, nor is this EVER a reason to murder someone), or that abortion doesn’t snuff the life out of millions of mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, scientists, doctors–people-to-be who never get the chance to say they want to live, then you are what Scripture describes as “one given over to a reprobate mind”, “blind” and incapable of seeing truth until God opens the eyes of your heart. This I pray he does. It has happened many times before and with Him, all things are possible.

          1. People-to-be you say. Yes, imagine all the future mass-murders which also were aborted. I’m pointing this out because you need to be able to look at a subject from more than one view, whether you agree with it or not. It’s called basic critical thinking. What’s with the whole “world-view”-idea? Is that how people who don’t understand human psychology explain human reasoning? It’s a very simplified explanation, which doesn’t go well with me at all. No, I don’t have a world-view. I have a habitus. My habitus influences my reasoning and outlook on life. My habitus is never identical with another person’s habitus.

          2. Lori,

            You may call it what you wish, but if you live in the world, you have a “worldview”. What a person may become has no bearing on whether or not it is wrong to kill them. True critical thinking allows a competent person to really think (not twist around terms) and understand that abortion is wrong and unethical. Understanding human psychology (of which I have a degree) has nothing to do with understanding the simplicity of what is murder. Your words here are futile. To convince me that we have the right to take a life in the womb is impossible. Impossible. Therefore, I will not engage anymore in meaningless wrangling of words over it.

          3. Amen, Kelly! And, your comment certainly stands on it’s own, but I would point out to Alice that a) there is growing evidence that the fetus feels pain WELL before 20 weeks – some doctors have testified that 8 week old fetuses appear to feel stimulation/pain. B) “Fetus,” “infant”, a 12 yo boy, a 30 yo man – they are ALL living human beings, made in the image of God at different stages of human development. There is not different in them biologically – or in the eyes of the God who made them.

        2. Unborn BABIES certainly do feel pain. They hear, also. In fact, as one would expect when one evaluates the situation with a clear mind, they experience the same things as other human beings do from a very early gestational age because, well, they ARE human. Little, not fully developed, but quite human.

          Being that I come from a lineage that suffered persecution to the point of death only several generations back in Communist Soviet Union I understand well how very sobering and horrific the holocaust during Hitler’s reign was. Not from personal experience, thankfully, but there is something about being a descendant from a line that was personally hunted and killed that really helps one gain a clearer understanding of atrocities of such an incomprehensible magnitude.

          Calling abortion a holocaust today is not some trite meme that belittles what happened during Hitler’s reign. On the contrary, it is rather all to much the same in both scope and incomprehensible horror. The difference is only in what we actually see.

          Some more food for thought on this issue here:

          Even if you will insist on believing that pre-born babies being shredded apart in their mother’s wombs is an altogether trivial ‘choice’, how do you continue your defense of said choice when it is carried out to it’s natural end? Also, why stop at leaving babies to die of neglect when they dare to survive an abortion? If upon birthing a baby I find he/she really isn’t to my full satisfaction, why shouldn’t I be allowed to kill him/her? It’s just a little further down the timeline after all.

          It’s either a person or it isn’t a person. If it’s a person after birth it’s only because they were a person before birth. And if before birth than the entire time before birth.

        3. And voila! The perfect example of how much damage recent feminism has done. To get to a point where women willingly throw away human life is horrifying. You want to read a really horrifying article? Read this: It’s called “So what if abortion ends life?”

          1. So finally they admit to the reality of it all. That’s good. I don’t know if that makes her/their militant position for taking life they arbitrarily deem less valuable more or less horrifying.

        4. You say that a “fetus” doesn’t know what is coming. it doesn’t know that it is alive, or what life it could have someday. How do you know that? You don’t. You just assume that. I believe that we all know what our lives will be like before we come to earth. Before we were born, we chose to come to earth. We literally chose to come, because we knew it would be a change to grow and become more like our Heavenly Father. We knew then that life would be hard, but we chose to experience it anyway. Many people say that the ultimate, worst, most wicked crime is to commit murder. But I say that abortion is even worse. It isn’t just removing the chance to keep living until we naturally die, which murder is, it is removing the chance to live at all.

  11. According to Fox News, 91% of abortions are performed in the first trimester (when it is physically impossible for the fetus to feel pain). I don’t deny that abortions happen later, but 91% is a very large amount. I ‘pretend’ nothing.

    I can’t help but notice that you’ve dropped the Holocaust comparisons. You certainly didn’t address my point about knowing and fearing what is coming.

    My main point, the biggest point of all, is that the Holocaust is not a toy. It is not something that you play with and then put back in the toy box. To do so is to toy with people’s lives (and their deaths). The Holocaust instantly evokes an emotional response but it does so with good reason! You are trying to skim away some of the natural feelings of horror, sadness, and sympathy that people feel when it comes to the Holocaust and use it to further your personal political agenda. In the spirit of ‘iron sharpening iron’, I wanted to point out that I strongly disapprove.

    I only hope that you would not do this with a personal crime (say, comparing someone’s rape to socialized medicine, or comparing child abuse to public education). It baffles me so much that you are willing to do this with one of the worst crimes against humanity.

    1. Alice, I find your illogical ability to see the horror in one thing and completely dismiss it in another thing, well, horrifying. Of course the holocaust isn’t a toy; that’s the point. And neither is abortion. Evokes emotion? Yes! But clearly, abortion doesn’t evoke the same emotion in you, and it should. How can you call my defense of defenseless life a “political agenda”? That is as infuriating as if you were to defend Hitler for his. You are a confused, blind woman. Clearly. “One of the worst crimes against humanity.” The holocaust or abortion? No life is esteemed above another, regardless of “experience” or “fear”.

      Additionally, based on your logic, or lack thereof, taking a life is worthy of defense only if the taking is “tortuous or visibly horrific”. So, that gives one permission to end your life, as long as they do it painlessly, but for whatever reason they deem sufficient. As long as you are not tortured, the murder is acceptable. Can you not see how insane that is?

      You’re in the wrong place to defend murder…you only magnify the horrors of a culture blinded by its selfishness and greed. I would suggest you find another corner of the net to offer your persuasions.

      1. Gosh, I’m so sorry! When I said ‘one of the worst crimes against humanity’ I did mean the Holocaust (the attempted extermination of the Jews in the 20th century). Thanks for letting me clear that up.

        1. I added this to my last comment– I challenge you to think about it:

          “Additionally, based on your logic, or lack thereof, taking a life is worthy of defense only if the taking is “tortuous or visibly horrific”. So, that gives one permission to end your life, as long as they do it painlessly, but for whatever reason they deem sufficient. As long as you are not tortured, the murder is acceptable. Can you not see how insane that is?

          1. My response to that is hamstrung by the fact that I did not say any of those things, nor is that the logical end point of my argument. I said nothing of torture, you’ve simply picked up yet another evocative term to abuse.

          2. Yes, you alluded to it:

            “A 12-year-old boy being bundled onto a train can know what he’s leaving behind and can suspect what’s coming. A 30-year-old man on a death march can feel his body wearing down. 15-year-old girl can know that typhus is ripping through the camps, taking away what is left of the people she loves. A 28-year-old woman can know that she’s being marched towards the gas chambers.”

            And then contrasted your argument with the fact that “a baby can’t feel pain”.

            Thus, you have concluded that the only reason the holocaust was horrific and abortion is not, is because in the first instance, pain and torture are clearly seen and felt; in the second, you have reasoned that it is not. So, given that same logic, we have a right to take anyone’s life, if it fits our agenda, makes our life somehow easier or more pleasant, as long as the taking is apparently “painless”. Which, by the way, is already happening in places (euthanasia). And where WE get to decide when it is right or wrong to take a life, there is no limit and no standard by which life can be protected.

          3. You and I have not shared emails, we have not shared phone calls and we have never met in person. Everything I have ever said to you is contained in the comments of your blog (and I hope you will confirm this for your blog readers.) And yet, for some reason, you are attributing words, thoughts, and conclusions to me that do not appear here.

            You make up arguments for me. You have attributed thoughts to me that are not mine. I will assume that when you typed the words “a baby can’t feel pain” you were allowing your imagination to run away with you. Otherwise, I would accuse you of making up quotes or making willfully inaccurate interpretations of my words (based on your own agenda).

            You have misrepresented me in order to make your side of the argument easy. You seem so willing to warp what I say, and make wild assumptions about what I think, that there is no point in arguing with you at all.

            If you would like to interpret this final comment to mean I endorse kicking puppies, pulling the wings off butterflies, bursting people’s birthday balloons or hitting children then feel free to do so. I have not said any of those things but that has not stopped you so far, has it?

          4. Are you honestly expecting any reader here to believe that,

            “a fetus that has not yet developed the biological ability to feel pain does not feel pain.”

            isn’t the same as “a baby can’t feel pain”?

            Your comments get a bit more absurd each time. I’m literally quoting you.

          5. Those two things are not the same. I was very specific in my description, you changed my words and, by doing so, changed the meaning. I’m sure it was very convenient for you.

          6. There are no words, Alice…no words. Convenience is hardly an issue in the defense of life. And while you may have been careful with your words, you still support abortion which takes the lives of many BABIES, by definition. You can’t pick and choose “only the fetuses” to be killed. Does that make it easier on your conscience, believing that “only fetus” are ripped apart each day? I am so sorry for you. And I don’t have to defend what I’ve inferred as it IS all here, clearly written, and any competent person can see the linguistic gymnastics you are doing to try to justify your position of defending murder.

          7. Our conversation is also over because it is fruitless to try to reason with someone who is irrational, especially on a topic irrelevant to the crux of my post.

    2. Ask yourself this. What was the holocaust? It was a mass murder of millions of people because other people thought they were better than them. The Nazis thought that the Jews were less human than they were. And what is abortion? It is the mass murder of millions of babies because people think they are less human than us. EXACTLY THE SAME. People say it is a “woman’s choice.” If you say that, you are saying that it was Hitler’s choice to annihilate all those people.

  12. “My main point, the biggest point of all, is that the Holocaust is not a toy. It is not something that you play with and then put back in the toy box. To do so is to toy with people’s lives (and their deaths). The Holocaust instantly evokes an emotional response but it does so with good reason!”

    Absolutely; could not agree more with you on that!

  13. I LOVE your blog! The last paragraph… Yes! Well, all of it is fantastic. My husband and I were talking about the same things this morning. Keep up the great writing and sharing!

  14. I wish we’d leave the Holocaust alone. Last time I checked feminism did not systematically strip people of their rights, force them into concentration camps to be worked to death or sent to gas chambers.

    Also abortion existed before the feminist movement. It existed throughout human history, along with infanticide

    1. Lila,

      Quite contrary: feminism precisely strips people of their rights–when’s the last time the victim was asked if he or she wanted to live or be ripped apart limb for limb? Do you honestly not see them as people? These comments are shocking. Subhuman. Also, evil has always existed, you are right. But now we defend it instead of punish it.

    2. You are right, it was around before feminism movements started. But that doesn’t mean it didn’t SERIOUSLY increase due to those movements. Many atrocities have been around for a very long time but have increased due to other factors that weren’t around or very prevalent before.

      It’s a sad, sad day when we kill another human being because we don’t like them, think they aren’t as good as we are, think they are a nuisance, think they are a lesser form of life than us, think they are bad even when having done nothing wrong, think they aren’t really human at all (by the way, all of those fit those who murdered people in the holocaust and those who perform abortions – and other life ending atrocities).

      Life has become nothing. Make a suicide pact with others because you want to live the perfect life with never any pain and if it doesn’t happen, just kill yourself. Kill others because their lives aren’t what you think they should be, it’s all good and it’s so loving. Kill another human because you think you are so much better or more worthy or just don’t see them as a human being. After all, we should only have people like you. Kill babies because this just isn’t a good time for your figure to change, for your priorities to have to alter, or for you to have to make major changes and decisions in your life. ALL life is valuable, no matter how much life experience you have.

        1. Lilah,

          No one even hinted that everyone who gets an abortion is a feminists (???) The feminists are the ones, though, who have pushed so hard, even striving to remove any stigma associated with taking the life of your child.

          I was an “anti-choice” woman who became pregnant out of wedlock, in the “worst” of circumstances (my parents ran a children’s home ministry, I was just beginning my college education, etc.) I had been told by a feminist professor, before I became pregnant, that if it ever affected me personally, I would feel completely different.

          I knew as soon as I discovered I was pregnant that I would keep the baby. It was horrific, but I didn’t want to kill her. And while that’s just a personal anecdote, which means nothing to most people, neither does an article telling about “anti-choice” women having abortions.

          It doesn’t change any facts about the matter. There are no variables that make it right.

  15. Loved every word. Thank you for your wise teaching. May the Lod continue to bless you and your family and strengthen you to continue to be salt and light in this dark world.

  16. I was just remembering that there used to be a video.I believe it was called “The Silent Scream”..where it literally showed an abortion in the first trimester from an ultrasound I think..and the baby appeared to be screaming!

    It was a Horrible thing to watch especialy because I had an abortion at 16. There are many hurting people out there who have made this mistake and I honestly believe that is why So many of them are so defensive about this issue.

    I just want them to know that there can be true forgiveness through Jesus Christ.

  17. Kelly, do you have a source for the statement that feminism has caused an increase in violent crimes against women? Also, is there any global analysis on this?

  18. Some of the comments here are a perfect illustration of the results of cultural brainwashing. Here’s a fun definition I found online: “Disregarding (even forcibly) established facts, in order to support preconceived notions. Repetitive speech, thought, relayed from whatever the source was. Catch phrases, tag-lines.” Lila, Lori and Alice, (and maybe Cindy who wants to sound smart but is only showing her inability to Google) thanks for the laughs. But Alice, you take the cake today.

    1. Ah, thank you Natalie! I am so wanting to high-five you right now! 😛

      I have to say though, being 32 weeks pregnant and feeling this precious one move inside me (not to mention looking around at myfour other precious littles by my side) as I read these ludicrous comments, it is very emotional for me to say the least. (as I imagine any Christian mother would feel).

      Thank you Kelly for another AEWSOME post. As my three year old son would say, “you wock”! 😉

    2. Natalie,

      In the spirit of “iron sharpening iron”, I’d have to say I don’t really see anything about Lila, Lori and Alice’s (“and maybe Cindy’s”) comments that would justify your saying “thanks for the laughs”. I agree with you when you say “Some of the comments here are a perfect illustration of the results of cultural brainwashing”. I think you could have left your comment at that; it was not necessary, IMHO, to name names and “laugh”, like a schoolgirl pointing at people and laughing. There is nothing funny about the confusion that exists in their minds about the things they’re discussing.

      And BTW, there are at least two commenters here by the name of Cindy.

      Spoken in love.

  19. Keep on, Kelly. Another awesome post!

    I loved this quote from Wedgeworth: “Feminism is chauvinism. It shares the belief that traditional “women’s roles” are undesirable and second best.”

    I discuss abortion, nearly daily, with those for and against it. The latest (ridiculous) argument for it is “reproductive justice:” the idea that a man can make a baby and walk away – so I NEED abortion so that I can do the same. Instead of being delighted to be the incredible creation we are (and blessed and unique in that we can carry children and men cannot), we want to lower the bar so that we are equal to the basest of men.

  20. I am a stay-at-home mom (fellow Alabamian) who homeschools her children using biblical principle; therefore, my children live a very easy and blessed life compared to others. My daughter and I had the “pride” talk the other day. My children have a cousin who lives in a very “worldly” household (as did I). She already at age 8 has been exposed to things that an 8 yr. old mind should not have to process i.e. feeling the need to wear “sexy clothing,” watching PG-13, R rated movies. Her favorite series is Twilight. I noticed my daughter snubbing her, taking a very prideful attitude as they were playing. I want my daughter to understand how blessed she is. I want her to learn to lead by example and not be prideful about her blessed circumstances. I love your blog and I have even recommended it to friends for inspiration. Be careful about being a “sheep” and others being the “goat.” We have many sisters in Christ suffering because of the decision to abort a baby. Our culture is making abortion a cool fad, to wear like a badge of honor as if it is some sort of initiation into a cool woman’s club. But what that cool woman’s club doesn’t want you to see is the emotional suffering that these women feel after an abortion. I have traveled a long road to Christ. I have learned that there is joy in marriage and in loving your husband contrary to what our culture tries to tell us. There is joy in homeschooling my children and having them home with me everyday. My point is others are traveling that road right now, today, as they are reading your blog (and the comments). You are an online role model now whether you wanted to be or not! Don’t become the “other side,” the “us vs them.” Be careful. Stay an inspiration.

    1. I’m a *little* confused by your comment, “don’t become the us vs. them”. I can only assume you are talking about the abortion discussion in this thread and unfortunately, there are issues that ARE black and white, dark and light, us and them. Sin always brings pain, regardless of which sin it is. That constant must remain. Maybe you could clarify?

      1. I’m not going to answer for Jennifer here but I am going to voice what I think I see going on here.

        I completely agree with you when you talk about how feminism has affected all of us and not in a good way.That can go for so many different issues here..the military..working outside the home for wrong reasons..abortion..and the list can go on and on.You make some good points and cause us all to think about it.

        The problem I have here is the way that people respond to those who question you. I completely agree that there are issues that we as Christians just have to take a stand for.

        We should defend what we believe! We should take a stand!

        We could “ARGUE” all day to see who has the most articulate words…Are we really supposed to?.. Isn’t that the way we are supposed to reach a lost..hurting world who needs Christ.Frankly, I’m just sick of it..

        I have appreciated many of you’re posts. I have not always agreed with some of them.We are Home-Schooled Moms and CHRISTIANS..RIGHT..

        MAYBE WE CAN ALL START ACTING LIKE IT..I’m saddened but I needed to say that.

          1. times. If you need me to give you examples..I will but I don’t have time at the moment to reread all the comments and give you the exact examples.

      2. No, I’m the one that has been confused. I had been reading this blog as a devotional. It has turned into a forum for debate which is fine. Excuse my lack of discernment.

        1. It is both; inspirational at times, and the need to confront hard things at other times. There is an epidemic in the church and culture when it comes to “thinking rightly”. Generation Cedar seeks to encourage, inspire *and* challenge its readers to “think rightly”. Hope that makes sense.

  21. I’ve been trying to work out a way to explain my point. I’ve come up with one:

    Ponder the following statements:

    1) this apple is red
    2) all apples are red
    3) some apples are green
    4) all fruit is red

    Imagine somebody is telling you a story about a red apple (Okay so far?). They say: ‘this apple is red.’ They are not claiming that ‘all apples are red’ or that ‘all fruit is red’. (Do you follow?)

    You cannot trip that person up, contradict them, or poke holes in their argument by pointing out that ‘some apples are green’. Similarly, you are not exposing a flaw in their story by pointing out that bananas are yellow.

    In this case, I was using the example of a fetus that had not yet developed the ability to feel pain (“this apple is red”). Other commenters tried to contradict me by pointing out that some fetuses could feel pain (“some apples are green”), Kelly herself tried to misrepresent my argument by claiming that I had said ‘a baby can’t feel pain’ (“all fruit is red”). Can you see the terms of the argument warping and changing?

    1. I realize it’s a huge mistake to allow you to continue in this irrational discussion, but I have allowed you this last comment so I can make a very important point you seem to be missing and/or evading: it doesn’t matter how you define “fetus”, or at what point you think a human being can feel pain. It doesn’t matter AT ALL.

      We are talking about life. Life begins at conception. That’s a SCIENTIFIC fact. I could care less about your definition of terms. They are absurd and irrelevant to the question of whether it’s OK for us to take a life. I had already made this point when I pointed out that your logic infers that it is OK to take ANYONE’S life, at any time, given that the victim doesn’t feel pain. You are arguing that if no pain is involved, then the taking of that life is acceptable. Your logic has horrific conclusions and you are not thinking like a competent person.


    2. But it would be like you stating “this apple is red” and you are holding a black bowling ball. The argument, itself, doesn’t matter much. If that baby, that life, can’t feel pain so what? It’s still a life, created by God, to not be destroyed. If pain was the only thing that made it horrible to kill a person, then murder after putting someone into a deep sleep where no pain was felt would be perfectly fine. It isn’t. A baby has a heart beat VERY soon after conception. I remember seeing my first child’s heartbeat at weeks old (less than 2 months into my pregnancy, and remember that for the first 2 weeks of that time line you aren’t pregnant because you had a period and time before ovulation even happened but it’s counted in your pregnancy time line). It is life and that life should only be ended by God Himself, no one else, even the mother blessed enough to carry it.

  22. Looking at my newborn baby the other night in the glow of a nightlight during a middle of the night feeding, I couldn’t help but notice how much she looks like a fetus! The ultrasound pictures, even at 20 weeks bear a strong resemblance to the looks of a newborn – even a 10 pound newborn! How people can call unborn babies fetuses and say they have no value or right to live, then turn around and call a newborn baby precious is beyond my ability to comprehend.

    1. I agree. My baby is almost 9 mo. old now, and every once in a while, I can still see the “fetus” from the 3D ultrasound picture. Even my 4 year old still looks like that picture!
      I think what people miss the most when using words is the actual meaning of the word. “Fetus” is Latin for “Baby” or “Infant”. Latin, which most people seem to forget except when wanting/needing to sound “smart”, is a dead language. We use words with Latin roots, but we do not speak the Latin language. =)

      P.S. Great post, Kelly. Also, after reading all the comments, your conclusions with “Alice’s” arguments are right on. It’s sad that people can’t see that the logical conclusion to ending one “type” of life, i.e. a “fetus”, is that eventually all life will be seen as disposable.

      P.P.S. Like the new blog background! =)

  23. I was genuinely curious about Kelly’s sources since she did not mention them in the post.

    I did google murder rates in the United States – they have been going down. The number of murders in the United States in 2011 was lower than the number of murders in 1974 – even though the population increased by 100 million.

      1. Kelly, thanks for the reply.

        I looked at the link. It mentions a substantial increase in violence against women between 2006 and 2008, but then goes on to say:

        “Due to criticism from experts in the subject, the survey’s methodology was adjusted in 2007 to capture more accurately the incidence of gender-based violence. The authors say in the report that the higher numbers may reflect the new, more accurate methodology rather than an actual increase.”

  24. Regarding the comment that “life begins at conception”: of course life begins at conception. Conception creates a two-celled organism that is living, and that begins dividing into a more complex being.

    But are you seriously arguing that a two-celled organism is a “person”? You do know that zygotes, at this stage, are less complex than viruses and most bacteria that we eradicate without question? Viruses are also living things. They have no potential to become human, certainly. But that’s all a two-celled organism is, you know: potential. To claim that it’s a person totally demeans the meaning of “person.”

    Before you jump to the conclusion that I’m only saying this because I’m “brainwashed” by “feminism,” let me clarify. I was homeschooled for 18 years by Bible-believing Christians who had as many children as God gave them. I was very, very anti-abortion myself until I actually started looking at human biology, as well as the Bible. The Bible never forbids abortion, and it was practiced during Biblical times. Many Jewish scholars interpret a passage in the Old Testament as an abortion, in fact: the one where a woman suspected of adultery is required to go see the priest and drink “bitter water” which may cause her fruit to depart from her.

    The claim of “brainwashing” is somewhat amusing, because if anything, I was brainwashed as a homeschooler into believing that the Bible was anti-abortion because embryos are human beings endowed with every right, and innocent until the day they sinned. If that’s true, why were there so many pregnant women who were killed in Israelite raids by the direct order of God?

    1. Joyce,

      The point that life begins at conception is to validate the fact that abortion takes a life. Most women don’t even know they are pregnant until around the 6th or 7th week of pregnancy. By that time, the zygote is a baby, fully human with DNA, a central nervous system, a beating heart and a brain. So based on that fact alone, there isn’t any point arguing whether “zygotes” can be aborted; babies are being aborted. And because life is on a continuum, even a zygote is a human life.

      Arguing that abortion is acceptable because it isn’t forbidden in the Bible? Actually, yes it is. It’s one of the Ten Commandments. Furthermore, Scripture refers to “fetuses” as people numerous times. God refers to Jacob and Esau as “nations” and Levi was mentioned as a person before he was even conceived, “still contained in the loins of Abraham”.

      God’s acts of genocide (difficult for us to understand) isn’t a normative for killing people at our will. He’s God. We’re not. He takes the lives of children even now, sometimes prematurely. He can, because they are His lives, not ours. That’s the whole point.

      Accepting that we are “allowed” to do anything not very specifically mentioned in the Bible is the worst kind of hermeneutics imaginable, especially when there is such clear principle as we are discussing now. With that approach, almost anything is acceptable.

      I would strongly urge you to go back to your moorings with Scripture as your foundation and not be “tossed back and forth by every wind of doctrine”.

      1. I have to completely agree with Kelly in her response to Joyce about the conception of a baby and that it is a life. She is right on when she says that most woman do not know they are even pregnant until several weeks.

        To make it a little more real here..Let me tell you that as a 16 yr.old girl who found herself pregnant(the first time having sex)that I was Petrified. My mom figured it out before I did and took me to the clinic for a pregnancy test only to be confirmed that yes I was.

        My mom said it was “Up to me”..She would support me either way.I didn’t have the maturity to handle any of it.I wasn’t a Christian yet.
        They act like they are you’re best friends at the abortion clinic.And yes..I actually saw the pictures they show you that tell you it’s all just tissue. They comfort you..assure you that you will be fine and I could go on and on. So I had the abortion.It was horrific to say the least.I will spare you all the details.

        Years later when I became a Christian and had my first child..I dealt with it all..In a hard way. I know that I’m forgiven because I’ve asked for His forgiveness. There are many women like me who are condemned to hell for this..even by Christians.

        Abortion is wrong.It is the taking of a human life no matter how far along you are.This is why I wanted to share this personally with all of you. I have been there and done it!! If you have had need to know that you can be forgiven.

        So for all of you who want to argue the point of just cells..tissue..not human. I can honestly say it’s just wrong to take a life from one week to nine months.

        There are real people out there who have made these mistakes and need to be told the truth in a way that makes them know that they can come to the Lord and be free. Wow..I never meant to go into all of this but I felt compelled to share that for some reason.

        1. Thank you for your testimony, Keri. You are so right that women who have had abortions need to know that theirs is not an unforgivable sin. I would add that crisis pregnancy centers have resources to help deal with the grief of abortion, the feelings like they can’t be forgiven, and other post-abortion trauma that women may be experiencing, sometimes for a very long time. There is hope and healing in Jesus.

      2. Kelly
        I totally agree with you and would like to add the example of Jeremiah. in Jeremiah 1:5 it says “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.” This shows that God knows us before we are born, when we are still “fetuses.” He already knows what we are capable of. Before we were formed, he knew exactly what we would become. We were already individual, real, alive people to Him. And if we strive to be like God, shouldn’t we recognize unborn babies as important individuals to be loved as well?

    2. Joyce, since you believe that the Bible does not forbid abortion, I thought I would share some passages from the Bible with you and see what you think about them.

      In Job 3:2-3 we find Job lamenting, “Let the day perish on which I was born, and the night that said, ‘A man is conceived’”. And not just any man! The original Hebrew word here, geber, means a mighty man, well-developed and physically strong. So God was describing Job’s personal character traits the night he was conceived – even though he was just a ‘few cells’ at the time, he was already a ‘mighty man’ in God’s eyes, meaning that he was indeed a person at conception, perhaps a younger version of that man but still a person nonetheless.

      Psalm 51:5 says, “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.” You can’t have a sinful nature if you’re not already a person. Cells can’t have sinful natures; flowers and viruses and stones can’t have sinful natures.

      In Psalm 139:13-15, David refers to himself as ‘I’ when he was conceived and in his mother’s womb – “My frame was not hidden from you , when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.” If David was not a person when he was conceived, why did he refer to himself as ‘I’? Why didn’t he just refer to himself as “that group of cells before I became me”? David knew he was a human being, even when he was conceived. Interesting to note – there is no separate Hebrew word denoting an unborn child, or a ‘potential’ or ‘almost’ child. Even when an unborn child is referred to in the Bible, the original Hebrew will translate into some form of the word ‘child’ or ‘man’. In other words, even in your mother’s womb, even at conception, you are what you are (a person), not what you may become (a potential person).

      Luke 1:41 says, “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” The ‘fetus’ is referred to as a baby.

      After reading all these passages, I must draw the conclusion that a human being is indeed created at conception and that to abort that human is murder, which is forbidden by the Bible (Exodus 20:13).

      Thank you, Joyce, for considering my comments.

    3. I don’t understand why calling a human zygote a person is demeaning to the meaning of “person”. Recapitulation was dropped even by the evolutionists a long time ago, so we are only grading one variation of human against another in “person”. Person is defined by the dictionary as being human (opposed to animal or thing) or as self-conscious or rational being. Since the human zygote is unquestionably human, it meets the first criteria. If the second is necessary to value life, then there are many forms of human that don’t meet it – a zygote would only be one. A memory care facility full of Alzheimer patients would be another…

      We cannot understand the ways of God, but the Bible is very clear that the “bitter water” brought on a curse. A curse is a bad thing, a sign of Gods’ great displeasure.

  25. I have always found it “odd” that racist, sexist, etc are all a bad thing to be. It means you are against that thing or believe one is of higher quality than another. But put femin in front of “ist” and that’s twisted to be in support of equality of women. Oh how backwards we have it. We are just as cherished, just as loved, just as wanted, just as smart, just as important, and just as desired by God as men. We have different roles. Different does not equal less than, no matter what the world says.

    1. I am sorry, but this is a bizarre comment. “Ist” is in all kinds of words. Phlebotomist, florist, optometrist, dentist, artist, etc etc. “Ist” does not imply that it is against the subject being referred to as in sexist or racist.

  26. Kelly, as always I’m amazed at your ability to speak the truth and to defend your arguments. I very much agree with your article and everything else you’ve written in the comments. Someone said that you weren’t answering in a very Christian-like manner. I couldn’t disagree more. Jesus called the Pharisees a “brood of vipers”(which was very confrontational–you didn’t call anyone names that I noticed;)),Paul got upset with people when necessary, Stephen pointed out what the rulers had done wrong. There’s a difference between being hateful/unloving and being zealous for the truth to be told with no budging. That’s one reason why things have gotten so out of hand in our society–we, as Christians, have not stood up for the truth strongly enough. We have too often remained quiet and allowed wrong thinking to take its place in society and eventually in the church. We have too often been the “us/us” instead of “us/them”. So much so that many Christians do not recognize right thinking. We are to be loving and gentle with unbelievers, but we are not to back down with the truth and act like it’s OK for them to think the way they do. Jesus didn’t do that; we don’t have to either. Kelly, keep inspiring, encouraging, and challenging us. We need it. May God give you wisdom, grace, courage, and fill your heart with joy!

    1. Summer, I so much appreciate your comment. Honestly, I’m surprised at the accusations too, as I purpose very hard (though I know I fail at times) to avoid slander or meanness in my responses. I’m glad to have that affirmed.

    2. Like I said, you have become an internet role model for girls! It is a very difficult job to speak God’s truth and to be gentle while speaking it.

  27. That was me. Basically, what I’m talking about here and I’m not going to go back to every answer, is the sarcasm with which some of the responses come across. If you were having a conversation in person with each other..lets be honest. The Sarcasm would be dripping.

    I have NO PROBLEM with Christians defending the truth.It’s how we do it. Have we forgotten That it is the goodness of God that leads people to repentence. We need to be honest with our responses without the sarcastic tones!

    This is one of the things that I have noticed lately on this blog.I am not trying to discourage you. Sometimes..there is just a Better Way!

  28. great post, but the comments, ugh. Joyce and others- It’s always baffling to me when people who support abortion are completely ignorant of scientific facts. The leaders of the pro choice movement accept that fetuses feel pain, and that they are in fact fully human, and that abortion IS murder. They are telling women to stop saying otherwise because science has already caught up with that argument. Try and keep up with your own pro choice group.

    Now about the actual post. I really liked the Wedgewords post about men not fully appreciating womanhood. “They were the ones who told the women that the men’s place was the best. They were the ones who said that the women’s roles were demeaning and less important. They stigmatized the feminine and the girly as undesirable. And after a long while, the women finally gave in! ” I see this with breastfeeding, as one example. Women had an amazing way to contribute to the family, and MEN, male doctors and Rx companies said that it was nasty,dirty, and inferior to formula.

  29. Keri- I don’t think there is ONE way of telling the truth. Some do so gently and others do so boldly and with some sarcasm. I respond better with sarcasm. I used to be very “bull headed” and most things I have changed my mind about like daycares and birth control were because someone boldly proclaimed the truth and sarcastically showed how the normal world view I held is absurd. I found women who were very gentle when discussing things like abortion were just women I could stomp all over. I viewed them as weak and not worth my time. I needed someone to speak my language in order for me to stop and listen. Now years later I realize that gentleness is not a sign of weakness, but back then it did not speak to me. Kelly- I am in no way saying you are crass and harsh, I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

    We all have different learning styes and therefore we have different preaching styles to get across our point. I’m thankful I came across Kelly and others whose personal way of persuasion spoke to me.

  30. Honestly, the comments on this post are why I stopped reading the comments for a while. It bothers me so much for someone to comment that Kelly (or others) are being unchristian or judgmental when they themselves (all of us readers, for that matter) don’t have a clue as to what goes on behind the face or this blog (or other blogs like this) and what theses bloggers deal with in response to ANYTHING they write. You say the sky is blue…you get attacked, you post a recipe…you get attacked….you post a picture of your family…someone jumps on you for the children not being dressed warmly enough. And another thing, when you read what someone has written it is very difficult to interpret the tone in which they are “speaking”. Just something to think about.

    1. I could be wrong, Keri, but I don’t think this comment is referring to you.

      You have a valid point, for sure. But as another lady commented, there are those of us that respond to a very decisive, strongly voiced stance – very soft, timidly spoken/written words just come across as weakness.

      Now, the problem is that some only really respond to very soft words and strong words that can at times become maybe a bit too strong feel very harsh and kind of like they’re being attacked. I guess the point I’m trying to make is that God gave us different spokespersons because there are different hearers that respond to different approaches to speaking/writing.

      Anyway, I just wanted to offer my two cents in case you had not considered that view yet. 🙂

    2. It’s funny to me that you took offense to my comment when I never mentioned anyone’s name and spoke in very general terms.

        1. I meant funny as in odd, not funny as in ha ha, but this discussing this withou further is a waste of time. Fair thee well…

    3. You nailed it Charity. Just because we are Christians doesn’t mean debate is off limits (quite the contrary!)…or that we can’t find humor in stupid arguments (yes, I said a mean word)…or we shouldn’t tell it like it is. It doesn’t mean we have to leave the table of ideas and become monks. Jesus said all kinds of things that the most “holy and religious” people of His day would have called “very mean.” Paul said sarcastic things. In fact there is a lot of satire in the Bible. For any sweethearts here baffled and confused, let me clarify: I’m not saying pull out all the stops and be nasty. But Kelly has never done that either. Frankly I can’t believe how gracious she is to the loony birds that comment here. (Oops, another mean word. Good thing this isn’t my blog, huh?) This needs to be balanced with what the Bible teaches about the tongue. (BTW, you more spiritual ones can hold your tongue about my tongue. I’ve always needed oodles of help with that. In fact, feel free to pray for me if you are moved to do so.) But to muzzle Christians because they are “supposed to be nicey nicey” is just plain idiotic. Oh dear, that isn’t a very nice word either is it? Sigh. Too bad we live in a world where some things can’t be described any other way. I’d venture a guess that a few folks here would benefit from a reading of Accidental Pharisees by Larry Osborne.

      1. I don’t know exactly to whom you were referring in this comment, but I am compelled to respond, whether or not you were addressing me in any part of this comment. (I suspect my comment farther up the thread on January 31, 2013 at 2:18 pm may have inflamed you, but I could be wrong as tone can’t always be read completely accurately through this medium.)

        I’ll preface my remark to specific examples from your post by saying that, quite honestly, I am shocked that you, as a professing Christian, would write a post like this to your sister(s) in Christ. Having said that, though, I do agree with you on some things you said.

        Just because we are Christians doesn’t mean debate is off limits (quite the contrary!)

        I agree. Completely.

        …or that we can’t find humor in stupid arguments…

        I said it before, and I’ll say it again, hopefully more clearly this time; there is NOTHING remotely funny about people’s confusion about the sanctity of human life in all its stages, including preborn. There is NO humor in it. None. You are laughing at people who think abortion is okay. I am quite frankly appalled at your attitude.

        It doesn’t mean we have to leave the table of ideas…

        Of course not. But who sits at the proverbial table and calls people “stupid” and “loony birds” and “idiotic”? How does that advance ideas? How is anyone encouraged to rise to a higher standard when they first have to crawl out from under a heap of condemnation? And most importantly, how does it present a Christian witness to the watching world?

        I’m not saying pull out all the stops and be nasty. But Kelly has never done that either. Frankly I can’t believe how gracious she is to the loony birds that comment here.

        I couldn’t agree more that Kelly has not been nasty or unChristianlike in her comments, and I told her as much (privately), and will gladly do so publicly, too. Indeed, as you said, she has been gracious. You would do well to try to emulate her in your responses here.

        stupid arguments (yes, I said a mean word)…loony birds that comment here. (Oops, another mean word…)… just plain idiotic. Oh dear, that isn’t a very nice word either is it? Sigh.

        Seems you rather enjoy repeating mean words, as long as it makes a point. It may not be making the point you think it is, and again I’ll ask, how is this presenting a Christian witness?

        (BTW, you more spiritual ones can hold your tongue about my tongue. I’ve always needed oodles of help with that…)

        So you’re immune from rebuke because you’ve “always needed oodles of help with that”? And we who speak up about it are “more spiritual” than you? I can tell you’ve never met me. I could give you an example from just yesterday before church in fact, but this post is long enough. Trust me, I’m not more spiritual than anyone else.

        In fact, feel free to pray for me if you are moved to do so.)

        This comment (where it is placed) is confusing to me. Yes, Christians often request prayers for these types of things, but when you place this sentence in the middle of all this sarcasm, especially among all the “oops…bad words” thoughts, which clearly didn’t bother you that much since you kept saying them, I have to wonder if you’re being serious about asking us to pray for you in that area. I hope you’re being genuine, because if you’re not, it certainly seems to me that you’re making a mockery of prayer.

        I’ll finish with one last statement you made: Too bad we live in a world where some things can’t be described any other way.

        No, there is another way. We can pray for these people, and when we do, it becomes much less likely that we would resort to name-calling and ridicule. If we desire to become more Christlike, then we will be motivated by love to try to reach the lost for Christ, wanting, as our LORD does, for all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. See Katy’s posts, for example, on this thread for good ways to engage others by discussing facts without resorting to name-calling or using derogatory terms to describe others’ posts.

        We’re all made in the image of Christ, but those of us who claim the Name of Christ should be held to a higher standard. It is in this spirit that I offer my comments. If you wish to respond to what I have said, then please reply directly to me. Thank you. Grace and peace.

        1. 6arrows- you should go back and read about Elijah’s response to the prophets of Baal. However I do think there is a difference between sarcasm just to name call and sarcasm and mocking that makes the argument clearer to others.

          1. Natasha,

            Thank you for the reference to Elijah and the prophets of Baal. Yes, that is definitely sarcasm. The question is, is that the correct approach to use when dealing with women who are condoning abortion?

            Abortion is one of the saddest tragedies we have in this world. And yes, we should grieve over all those babies lost to abortion. But how many of us really take time to also grieve for the women who have been hurt by the pain and guilt they may be carrying because of past abortions?

            Don’t you think it’s possible that some of these commenters like Alice, et al, may have abortion in their pasts, and if they don’t know Christ and understand that they can receive forgiveness for their abortions, they may be trying to shield themselves from their guilt by trying to convince themselves that abortion really isn’t that bad?

            I have heard the statistics that 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 pregnancies end in miscarriage and 1 in 4 end in abortion. I don’t know about you, but I know TONS of people who have had miscarriages, yet not one woman I know has ever told me she’s had an abortion, except for Keri on this site, whom I don’t know personally. (I also know that the wife of a coworker of my husband’s had an abortion, but I’ve never met the woman and don’t know who, if anyone, she has mentioned it to.)

            The point I’m trying to make is that, for me, it seems that women who have miscarried vastly outnumber those who have aborted. I think the reason for this huge discrepancy in numbers is not so much raw numbers of women I know who’ve miscarried vs. those who have aborted; rather, I think the reason I’ve heard of more of the former than the latter type of woman is due in part to it being much easier to share our miscarriages with others, knowing the emotional balm it is to receive comfort and sympathy in our loss, than to share an abortion history, because of a fear their choice may be met with condemnation and disdain for the woman.

            Women who have abortion histories (and we don’t always know who they are) need love and support, not sarcasm. That is why I think we must choose our words carefully when we come in contact with women whose abortion views don’t match our own. Behind the persistent, tough exterior there may be some deeply hurting hearts. They need compassion.

            It is for this reason I don’t think there is any place for any kind of sarcasm at the table in an abortion debate, even if sarcasm is justifiable at other times. We just do not know if we are twisting the knife deeper into a hurting heart. MHO.

          2. 6 Arrows..I think you are exactly correct with this post! Thankyou for it..It actually may be one of the reasons why I was so sensitive to all of the things that have been posted here.

            I wish I knew you in you’d like..feel free to go on the generation cedar fb page..(if you have fb) and look me up.I left a messege for Kelly on there back at the beginning of Jan. Blessings!!

          3. {{{Keri}}}, so glad to see you here again. I wish I knew you in person, too! I don’t reveal online where I live, but I know you’ve mentioned what state you’re in, and I’ll just say my residence is not exactly around there 😉 I’m not on facebook, but I can have Kelly send you my email if you would like to exchange emails and chat now and then! If not, that’s fine, too, Keri; we can chat here, too 🙂

            Blessings to you, also!

          4. 6 arrows..that would be just fine if you would have Kelly send me you’re email..or she could send you mine..either way. It may be a good thing NOT to have fb as some things on their drive us all I have it mostly to keep up with relatives far away! Blessings to you!

          5. Great, Keri! I’ll send Kelly an email right now, and ask if she can forward my email to you. Talk to you later 😉

          6. 6arrows- I understand what you are saying. But they sacrificed their first borns to Baal. Infanticide. Elijah mocked them.

            I see your comparison with miscarriages and abortion. But I believe the reason for this is people avoid rebuking pro-abortion thinking harshly and so those women and men go on thinking what they did was o.k despite this guilt that they feel. They’re being lied to constantly. It’s hard to seek help and forgiveness when so many people are screaming that what you did is morally right.

            I do think about the women who have had abortions, and that’s exactly why it infuriates me when ignorant, stupid women lie to other women about the facts of abortion. Abortionists and Planned Parenthood say that fetuses feel pain, they move away from the danger, and they are in fact human. They have said women need to stop saying otherwise because despite this women still have the right to kill their own children.

            One Definition of “stupid” -given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner. I would say telling other women false information about something as serious as abortion is careless and certainly unintelligent, (not to mention cruel) given the information we have now.

            I’ve been arrogant and stupid most of my life, I’m thankful I’ve met people who stood up to me and told me so. I needed to be shouted at because I was so arrogant and foolish I wouldn’t hear it any other way.

            If a woman has had abortion and is keeping it quite but she is still denying proven facts openly and DECEIVING OTHER WOMEN IN THE PROCESS then she should be severely rebuked and mocked. You don’t lead other people into sin because you have guilt.

            I think Natalie was just plain frustrated. Trying to talk with people who won’t acknowledge simple facts can be maddening.

            Sarcasm is a very effective tool when dealing with people who will not listen to reason. However, It is only effective when it brings about clarity and I’m afraid Natalie’s post did not.

            Keri- thanks for your testimony. I think you are very sensitive to this topic, rightfully so. However, I did not find anyone who was cruel or unchristian in their responses except maybe Natalie. We all reach that point sometimes when dealing with people who will not hear the truth.

          7. “I think Natalie was just plain frustrated. Trying to talk with people who won’t acknowledge simple facts can be maddening.”

            That’s a really accurate, discerning statement. I can vouch for Natalie…she is a dear friend and a warrior-writer in the trenches who daily deals with verbal assaults, “maddening logic”, etc. As much as we all try to show grace in our writing, we are still human and there is no place that causes us more frustration than, as you pointed out, feminists fervently defending the murder of children. I think every saint in the past (Hosea included) was maddened by it and rightfully raged. I think our God rages. I still agree that we are responsible for how we defend even the most maddening arguments, but also that many of us are too sensitive all the same.

            Tough line. Bottom line in this particular discussion was that I was wrong to allow hardened, feminists dissenters enter this discussion. They will not be swayed with words, but only the power of the Holy Spirit removing the scales from their eyes. So, it was my fault for letting completely different worldviews barge in and cause such chaos. Sorry guys 😉

  31. Excelent post! I heard Dr. Dobson say one time that one of the problems men face today is the lack of a certain realm that is exclusive to them. It used to be the military. Now what? NFL? Men need something that is just for them, the same way we women have an array of things that are just for us, like bearing and nursing babies.
    No wonder men are not what they should be. We are competing with them, taking away, not leaving any room for them to develope as men.

  32. Last Friday I was listening to the radio and the host was reporting on an article of news which stated that there is now a shot that can be given to women in the military which will stop their periods for one year. One more step for them to become more like men.

  33. Excellent post! Keep writing excellent posts, Kelly.

    You know, when a topic is pricking, convicting or difficult to swallow it is a great plan to throw in a red herring in the comment section. That way they are so consumed with their anger and with plotting their rebuttal that they never have to deal with the heart issues this column addresses.

    The main points, that feminism has taken away worth, value and honor for women staying home and raising children themselves and that it has also relegated us to the same level of men (I can do many things they cannot as well as they can do many I cannot–thus, not the same level) have mostly been disregarded.

    Those that come in just to aggravate, to bug someone whose views they disagree with have no interest in the truth or attempting to understand a different view of killing babies. It is sad to see. Maybe volunteer more and stop spending lots of time trolling websites that fundamentally disagree with you, unless you are doing it to gain understanding instead of just sowing strife. I have to say, though, you were quite effective pretending that was the only issue in the entire column.

      1. Research the number 1 reason for abortion. Families cannot afford it.

        A girl’s dowry is seen as too high for the families. In China you face huge fines for having more than 1 child. Feminist in countries India try to outlaw he practice, but of course you don’t like feminist…. China and India hold most of the world’s population.

        1. “Affordability” is the number one reason women GIVE for having abortions (I’m speaking of America here; admittedly I don’t know enough about India’s statistics and China’s is a result of corrupt government).

          I hear about “can’t afford more children” all day. For those who are truly poor and unable to care for a child (and I don’t deny those women), adoption doesn’t cost them a dime and there are parents everywhere desperate to adopt a baby and save its life. The core isn’t really poverty, it just appears that way. The core is that a. we are an immoral people and b. we love ourselves more than others and we esteem convenience over what is right and true.

          1. Not true. Adoption will cost you, and I know this from personal experience.

            I was pregnant and going to put the baby up for adoption. I contacted the adoption agency and requested the info. I filled out a mountain of paper work. I called the adoption agency social workers. They were great. They wanted to help anyway they could. They would help me get food stamps, WIC, and Medicaid. They would be there to listen.

            Then I started to get really sick. I don’t know if you are going to believe this or not, but I start having morning sickness like 10 days after I conceived I kid you not.

            I started to miss work. It was terrible. I got dehydrated. I had no energy. I was light-headed and saw stars in front of my eyes. It hit me like a ton of bricks.

            But missing work means missing money. And I live paycheck to paycheck. I have rent, car insurance, food, and light bill. I have a 10-year old son.

            The adoption agency cannot help you pay all your living expenses. (The laws do vary from state-to-state) They can HELP pay some. They really would like to, but their hands are tied by the law. And you cannot get much money until after the baby is born. It sits in an escrow account until you have signed the papers. What will I do until then? I am facing losing everything.

            I couldn’t afford to miss work early on and I couldn’t afford to miss work while recovering from the pregnancy. It was as simple as that. The pregnancy was terminated. I really wanted to have that baby. But that is life and life isn’t fair. I did the right thing in that situation. I had to pay my bills and take care of my son. And there was nobody but me to do that.

            It is crazy. I really would have just probably needed like 5 grand. I keep my expenses low. But for me, I don’t make much, and it might has well have been a million. And my state does not offer pregnancy disability. There is more to this story. I mean I *really* tried to make this work. I just kept running into nothing. There are places that like help with maternity clothes and rides to doctor appointments, but I needed cash to pay rent. :/ That is life. I feel neither guilty nor sorry for myself.

          2. I am sorry…so very sorry, for you and for your baby that died. And while I hear your difficulty, I wish you would have known that there ARE people who would get you through to save that baby. Did you go to a Christian, crisis pregnancy center? Did you go to a church? Many of our friends have adopted privately and paid ALL expenses for the mother and delivery. I even know some who have given these mothers places to live until the baby is born. There are also ministries/organizations set up for these mothers until their babies are adopted. There are ways; not to try to make you feel any worse, but for others who may be reading. There is always a way. Please know my heart hurts for you.

          3. The crisis pregnancy center was the place where you can get clothes and rides to the doctor. You have to earn them by taking Bible study classes with the center. They also provide someone to talk to (the only thing I would have wanted from them). Which is great, I am sure they help some people. But I work and have a child, I don’t have time to take classes during the day or afternoon. And it wasn’t small things like clothes and gas money I needed help with, it was major bills. I am not going to beg people at churches for money either. It wasn’t anyone’s fault but mine and I took care for it myself.

          4. Again, for those reading, to say “I’m not going to beg people at churches” is a poor out. (It’s interesting that Christians get so often berated for “not wanting to do anything” but this gives some indication of why that may be–they simply don’t know.) You are right to admit where the fault lies, but “you” aren’t the one, necessarily, who needed saved out of this. That’s where the church would have been delighted to step in. You don’t realize how many people are desperate to raise a child–any child–and especially one that could be saved from death. There is ALWAYS another option. This is what I want to make clear to young women. This is the message everyone needs to know.

          5. I think that is why it is young people and the very poor that put babies up for adoption- it doesn’t cost them that much. People that have their own households are the ones that it is difficult for. I would have needed someone to support me and my son until I recovered from the birth and however many weeks I miss while pregnant. Who has like 5K or more just sitting around? Plus with most of the money unavailable until after the birth, I am not sure how you are suppose to pay rent and keep the lights on. I really did my research. And the agency follows the law (which is intended to prevent human trafficking). The amount you are able to get is limited. Every state has its own law, but in America you can’t appear to be selling your baby or profiting from it. The adoption agency does offer a college scholarship for its birth mothers, but I am 30- not a teenager. I mean, what do you want people to do, go knock on the door of random churches and ask for money??

          6. Lilah–prenatal care isn’t absolutely a must either. I hardly ever go for mine, my doctor laughs and teases me, and I tell him “prenatal care is overrated”. Unless there is a problem (which can rarely even be prevented with prenatal care, by the way), many women all over the world have had healthy babies with not one prenatal visit. That’s more of a US “luxury” we’ve been convinced is a necessity.

          7. we do have free prenatal care. Women can qualify for a type of medicaid, in Ohio it is called Healthy Start.

          8. That makes me be proud to be an Ohioan. It’s the least we can do for needy pregnant women … and a pro-life thing to do.

          9. Women without prenatal care have a higher incidence of poorer outcome for the baby. Prenatal care can detect many problems early rather than waiting until complications happen. One example is detecting high blood pressure before the woman goes on to have full blown preeclampsia. Another example is a woman spilling sugar in her urine. You can treat this, thereby reducing complications for both mother and baby. Every pregnant women should have prenatal care, and it actually should begin before pregnancy.

          10. Thanks for pointing this out, Elizabeth. Prenatal care detected gestational diabetes in both of my sisters, an obvious complication of pregnancy. Another friend developed pre-eclampsia, also diagnosed during a prenatal visit.

            I agree with Kelly that most complications of pregnancy can’t be prevented by prenatal care, but they can often be diagnosed and treated with good prenatal care.

          11. Thyroid levels should also be checked during prenatal care, along with iron levels. I can’t imagine having a baby with down syndrome just because I didn’t get a simple blood test and took the right medication to prevent it. Thyroid levels can really mess things up for both mom and baby. If I didn’t get prenatal care I would have gone into kidney,liver and heart failure before we realized anything was wrong. we definitely would have lost the baby. I was 23 years old and in very good health previously!I If I made it the whole 9-10months I would have bleed out during labor. That being said, basic prenatal care can be affordable. My dad paid for both prenatal care with cash, including Labor and delivery in a hospital for my mom.

          12. Understand that I’m not saying “a pregnant woman doesn’t need prenatal care”. I am saying that prenatal care shouldn’t be a reason someone chose to abort. That’s the height of irony; “since I can’t afford everything my baby can have, I’ll just take its life away”. That where the original discussion started.

            Certainly, in some cases, important problems are detected and able to be corrected.

            Furthermore, it IS cheap. My entire doctor’s fee (prenatal, delivery and post-natal) for this baby is $1200. I just got my bill. That’s $133/mo. and they actually won’t deny you service if you can’t pay by delivery.

          13. I understood what you were saying. Fortunately, at least in Ohio, prenatal care is very easy to get, and should in no way be an excuse to have an abortion. Wow Kelly was the 1200 AFTER insurance? I paid $1300 just for the delivery in copays.

          14. Natasha—we don’t have insurance, we have Samaritan’s Ministry (sharing program). Which essentially means we are “cash pay patients”. Cash pay patients get huge discounts because it is cheaper on the doctors to surpass the hassle and red tape of the insurance companies (told to me by a doctor).

            My doctor *did* give me a discount (I call it a “bulk discount” LOL!) He charges $1200 and the hospital charges $2400–the whole thing is only $3600 and we will get it all back through Samraitan’s (before the payment is due).

    1. The root cause of murder( the born and unborn) is no conscience, the root cause of theft is no conscience, the root cause of adultery is no conscience, the root cause of gossip is no conscience, the root cause of not doing your best in everything you do is no conscience. All things = no God in that area. Everything else is an excuse hiding the real root cause.

      Evil does not need an excuse, but it sure likes one.

    2. The root cause of abortion is sin. Therefore, we will never eradicate it (as we haven’t eradicated rape, murder, etc…) but the idea that the number one reason for abortion is poverty is hogwash!

      I was at a luncheon meeting last weekend for the kick off of the local Pregnancy Resource Center’s post-abortion healing program. At the luncheon we heard testimony from several women who had had abortions. A 36yo woman who had had 5, a woman who looked to be in her 50s who had had 4, a woman in her 40s who had had 2… They all had abortions a) to cover the sin of unmarried sex b) because they didn’t want the child to get in the way of their career plans. We heard “live” testimony from 5 or 6 women…and watched a video of another half dozen or more… NOT ONE said anything about poverty or not being able to afford a child. In response to a quote on my Facebook page by an abortion advocate, a friend wrote something that I think sums up why abortion is so prevalent in our country: “It’s literally worship of physical pleasure on demand to the point of blood sacrifice on it’s alter. And like most false gods it ironically offers only a pale imitation of the true pleasure that results from a sexuality submitted to the true God. They’re selling their soul for cheap imitation, a paper crown, a tinny reflection of the real thing. By robbing it of significance they rob it of everything.”

  34. Thanks Kelly! Just look at the dissenters as proof that your message is getting out there – which is a great blessing 🙂 I pray that God would use your message to change hearts.

  35. Personally I don’t like abortion and would never have one, but I have to say it’s not my place to decide that for anyone else. I don’t know that person’s situation and in my opinion if God is truly in control he can sort out the sinners without my meddling. If asked I would tell a friend my reasoning for not having an abortion, but I wouldn’t go so far as condemning them for considering it.

    Personally while having been raised a Christian I grew up and decided Paganism suited my personal beliefs better. That being said I have still have morals and values, and try my best to live peacefully with others. My religion isn’t as immoral as some would assume. “Do what you will, and harm none.” instead of being looked at as free pass to do whatever you want could be looked at this way. Is murder, lying, stealing, gossiping, adultery ect harmful to anyone? If the answer is yes then doing it is wrong. My own religion puts a fairly high value on traditional gender roles and motherhood, but not to the point where all a woman is good for is marrying and having as many kids as possible. It does put a high value on hospitality and providing comfortable homelife for your family.

    My problem with many of the Christians who are against abortion is that they don’t do enough practical things to stop it as they should. Blogging about it and going to protests aren’t going to do as much good as practical things like asking the pregnant woman how can we help you in a way that would allow you to keep your child? Would you homeschool a pregnant teen so that she could continue her education while keeping her baby? Would you help a single mom with daycare or help her cover an unforeseen exspense? Would you look at a pregnant sixteen year old whose boyfriend left her to deal with itby herself and say “So you made some poor choices, but your lifes not ruined and God loves you and so do I.” or would you condemn her and tell her how no decent man will ever want her now? Answer honestly and if you find yourself not willing to help then consider yourself part of the reason why abortions happen.

    I know so many conservative Christians who put down single moms and gripe and complain about their tax dollars going to support the grand lifestyle of the much maligned “Welfare Queen” let me tell you from experience what life is really like for a single mom. I am the product of two teens who weren’t mature enough to have custody of a goldfish getting married and trying to raise a baby. By the time I was four my parents were divorced and my paternal grandparents were raising me. My grandparents were wonderful people they were devout Christians and I grew up in church. Sadly niether of them lived to see me turn eighteen. My dad who was on his third wife by the time my grandmother passed the summer before my seventeenth birthday wasn’t thrilled about having to finish raising me. My newest step-mom hated me from day one she had enough to deal with with her own daughter who was the poster child for teenage rebellion. Me I was hurt by my dad abandoning me as a kid and the fact that he had left me alone for the past three years to take care of my dying grandmother by myself. I had pretty much been taking care of myself for the last year or so and really didn’t feel like I needed him at that point. I was never a wild kid Ihad a few close friends and was an honor roll student. I didn’t party and had my very first job. At home though things were bad I was unwanted and they made sure I knew it. My step-mom was abusive she actualy tried to hit me with an iron skillet once because I had left a water spot on one of the dishes when it was my turn to do them. I got locked out of the house during a blizzard and had to sleep in the barn for no particular reason other than my dad worked for VDOT and was out plowing snow so she could get away withtrying to turn me into a popsicle. Long story short at seventeen four months before my high school graduation they kicked me out. I used the money my grandparents left me to buy a trailer and continued going to school, but I was an angry hurt and lonely kid. I graduated only to find out my dad had spent all themoney my grandparents had saved for me to go to college. So with no real prospects I let my high school sweetheart move in to help with the bills. We were supposed to get married and be together forever, but I got pregnant and then caught him with his best friend’s fourteen year old sister, so I kicked him out.

    He pressured me to have an abortion, man did he ever, but I had my son. Soon I found out how hard single motherhood could be. I worked in fact I worked two jobs most of the time and couldn’t get by without meficaid and foodstamps I would work from 6 a.m. to sometimes midnight or later drag myself home catch a few hours sleep rinse and repeat. I did this for five years and I hated it I rarely got to spend time with my son my parents or sitters were raising him while I burned the candle at both ends trying to keep a roof over our heads. I was lucky though by pure accident oneday I met the man who is now my husband we’ve been together twelve years and have four kids together plus my son who he has raised as his own. Now I’m a stay at home mom and thankful that I have that option now. My point is I love all my kids and don’t regret having any of them, but looking back I shudder at all the times despite my best efforts my son and I were nearly out on the street. I can see how some women might look at that future and say no way I’am not doing that to myself and my child.

    Today I’m not as quick to judge as I once was in my younger more idealistic days I know the road these young women face and I will niether condone nor condemn their choice because it’s theirs to make and any sin involved is between them and a higher power than little old me.

    1. You have proven just how horrific paganism is and why, without a standard of right and wrong (which can only be ascribed by the Creator since we live in His universe), there is no end to the anarchy. Let me show you what I mean…this, given a different offense, is what you just said:

      “Personally I don’t like raping children and would never do it, but I have to say it’s not my place to decide that for anyone else. I don’t know that person’s situation and in my opinion if God is truly in control he can sort out the sinners without my meddling. If asked I would tell a friend my reasoning for not having raping a child, but I wouldn’t go so far as condemning them for considering it.”

      And yes, I am (have been) willing to take practical measures to help a woman save her baby. I am not immune to the messes people get their lives into. My family spent my entire childhood (and still does) ministering to the children of such results. There are also Christians on every side of me taking VERY practical, hard, sacrificial measures to try to pick up the pieces of poor lifestyle choices.

    2. See, I see that as a big issue with paganism. Eh, I wouldn’t do it but you go ahead. That’s not a moral life. That’s a wash my hands of it, at least it wasn’t me type life.

      I also dislike sweeping statements like “Christians this” or that or don’t, or do. Guess what? This Christian has always put her money where her mouth is, as it were. I don’t go into detail of my time, money, and talent donations to others because it’s not anyone else’s business. I dare say that might be why you don’t know many who do these things, because we aren’t supposed to tell when we do good. We do, we receive blessings from God. I don’t want thanks from man because that’s all I will receive. So, be very careful to lay all the blame at our feet for other women making bad decisions. It’s not may fault if my neighbor sins. I am charged with loving them, helping them in anyway I am called, forgiving them if they wrong me, supporting them through hard times, and sharing Christ’s love with them. But to say it might be my fault if they have an abortion is one big issue with today’s world. If I hit my child is it your fault? If I drink and drive is it your fault? If I lie is it your fault? No. I will just say now, all bad decisions I make are fully my fault. I choose to do the wrong thing on a personal level. So let’s leave the “well, it’s not really MY fault I had to have an abortion and end the life of a baby” lines because they aren’t intellectually honest. Let’s not give people more excuses to harm another human being. We have too much of that going on right now.

      I don’t think it’s idealistic to say, “here are the laws God handed down for all of creation, we should all follow them and seek His help and guidance in that every single day. Then, when we mess up, and we all will, we should seek His forgiveness and try to make different choices from then on out.” Nothing idealistic at all about that.

      We all have had hard things happen where we had to make very hard choices. Just because we have a hard life, or a hard time in life, doesn’t justify our choosing a bad choice. Many other people have been in similar situations, and many times worse situations, and didn’t choose to sin in such a way. I know I have made bad choices in very good times, and great choices in very bad times. (and vice versa) We can all throw out stories of bad times to prove why it’s OK for us, or others, to do the wrong thing. Instead, why don’t we hold each other accountable for making the right decisions and supporting each other through them?

  36. This is a subject that has so many variables, that it is easy to focus on one aspect and be maligned for ignoring all the other aspects…The difficulty is this: abortion is going to be something that doesn’t make sense in the mind/heart of the Christ follower, because of God’s regeneration and the changing of that person’s heart…However, in the life of an unbeliever, abortion can be a common place, every day, accepted thing…and as Christians, what else should we expect from those who are not made new through Christ? After all, if we were not made new, we would lapse into the same mindset of abortion that the world does…I think what we end up doing is wondering why the unsaved don’t behave like the saved…which is easy to do…but we really can’t expect of them the same attitudes and behavior as we should of those whom God has changed. I know for myself, I would love to find ways to reach out to women who need some care, but I do have some fears. I have known a few younger women who have been pregnant as teens or young unmarried women, and often(not always, but often) there is a deep-seated rebellion in them(and hence, I wonder if they are made new by Christ, regardless of what they SAY) that I don’t really want to deal with, as I have 4 children of my own…It seems like we have a mindset here, that women get pregnat (poof!) out of nowhere…but really, the girl/woman in most cases, in her rebellion against God and parental authority, allowed a man to impregnate her…And often the same kind of girl who would allow that is the type that may be into clubbing, drinking, and pop culture… Since we have a spare room, my hubby and I have even thought about keeping a teen mom with us…but my fear is that I would end up getting a girl who would be sneaking out the window, who would defy our household authority, and otherwise bring chaos and difficulty into our home…Perhaps this is a wrong mindset, but it’s a real fear, and one that needs to be dealt with. When I was in highschool, my boundaries were already set, and purity before marriage was one of them…if a woman cannot make and keep this primary boundary, how can anyone know what other one she will cross, and whether she is trustworthy? This can sound hard-hearted, like I’m saying I’m only willing to help those who fit with my definition of “goodness” but I guess what I mean is, as much as I would like to see her baby carried to term and cared for, that baby is in HER body, and I can only be of help as far as she will listen and LET me be of help. Wisdom can only be of use if it is taken seriously, considered, and applied. So many young women are so deep in rebellion, that anyone, having compassion on her for the sake of her unborn baby, who tries to lead/point her back on a better road will be scorned and deflected. Their help (in terms of money/food/housing) is taken, but any other direction concerning God, healthy eating, good habits etc is ignored…and often the baby is the worse for it. I guess I just see an unteachable spirit in many girls who find themselves in this situation…and that is discouraging to those who would otherwise have compassion…Just trying to be real here, people…don’t malign me!

    1. Laura,

      You make excellent, REAL points and no, it’s not as simple as “well, just help them”. As I’ve said before, I grew up in this environment (as was one myself!) and there are so many other factors involved that it’s not always black and white. The sad reality is that sin bears many consequences. It’s not as simple as living as you wish and then magically expecting to be rescued from all the baggage.

    2. Laura, that is a very real point. You are first charged with your husband then children (after God, of course).

      We had my husband’s cousin live with us. He was a former meth addict at the time. We had rules which he was rebellious following. We gave him money while he looked for a job and treated him like our son. He pretended to follow our direction. Then we found out he was hanging out with a married woman! (she was separated, was the justification). We told him we didn’t want sin in our home, so he could never talk to or see her again or he could move out that day. Sadly, he chose to leave, and the entire family (that trained him this way) was mad at us. What is worse, because he had the open door to sin, he began drugs again. (He told us he wished he had listened to us and followed our rules AFTER he got clean again).

      My point is 2 things: 1) the very day he left, peace returned in our home. When someone is in willful, continual sin, they invite the enemy to dwell with them. We always felt a weird energy of strife, but couldn’t figure out the source because he was hiding it.

      2) The only reason we let him come and live with us is because we feel that God said to (and since you are hesitant, I am sure you have not heard that). Without that, I’d never done it (I fought it for a couple of hours, even knowing what God’s will was). But my 12 year old (who is naive and really pure hearted by God’s creating) got to see what a life of rebellion, lack of discipline and lack of communing with God brings. It was not a fun lesson at the time, but the wise do not have to learn the hard way, they can learn through others’ behavior. So, I can thank God He gave me the strength to be obedient and that my daughter saw a life she’d otherwise never be exposed to (we homeschool) while under our wing of protection and under our counsel about his behavior. Even she, who barely ever was disobedient, got more obedient and closer to God, I think because of what she saw.

  37. I don’t understand why early feminists were so eager to ape the role of manhood…In my own marriage, there is nothing more precious to me than to be treated in a special, tender way because of my identity of being a woman. My big, strong, rough, tough husband becomes tender, protective and loving towards me–a woman. Why is this bad or wrong? Being prized, tenderly loved, protected are blessings…ones for which we should be thankful and delighting in, rather than militantly spurning…in a society where women are “equal” to men, women will also have equal opportunity rape, assault and so on…Do you know what I am doing to oppose rape? Teaching my sons to treat women respectfully. To never hit or wrestle or behave in any way with a woman like they would with another boy/man(aggressively). Hate me if you want to, but I am pretty sure, you mothers of daughters would rather see your daughters with my future men than the egalitarian young man who is willing to hook-up with your daughters, and then leave her in a fix when she becomes pregnant…just saying…

  38. I just read a great piece by Ann Voskamp at concerning marrital love…and I think what she says is EXACTLY what a natural woman, unaided and unchanged by Christ, is UNWILLING to do…a feminist, is by definition a woman in her natural self, unchanged by grace…

  39. just a thought–a young man (or any man, really) who hasn’t been taught to treat women with care and respect–if he hasn’t been taught that she is *special*, will default to the assumption that she is *not* special…and I think, therefore will be more inclined to use/manipulate her for his own benefit…In order for men (because of their own kinds of sinfulness) to lay down their lives for women and to treat them with extra care/respect, need to be taught that women are vaulable in God’s sight, and worthy of a special kind of treatment…and ultimately need to be made new through Christ! Like I said, the default mentality then is the kind of treatment boys will pick up playing video games…which portray women as s*x objects.
    I find it interesting that the militant feminist, in a way, wants the respect that a Christian man will offer to women, without the God who gives the instruction…note to feminists: men who don’t have God will be much less likely to treat you as valuable human beings!!

    1. That is true “the respect that a Christian man will offer, without the God who gives the instruction.” We have been using a book called Proverbs Study Guide: The Book of Proverbs, God’s Book of Wisdom as part of our curriculum and it has a great section on that very subject.

  40. Kelly, I appreciate that you are so supportive of life, but supporting life is not just being against abortion. What do you think about war? It is taking life. What do you think about the death penalty? That is also taking life. What do you think about people that choose to have life support discontinued when someone they love is no longer able to survive without it? (Traumatic brain injury, etc.) That is also taking life.

    My point is that there are so many other things, besides abortion, that take life. If you are supportive of human life, you should be supportive of ALL human life, not the parts that you deem worthy of supporting.

    1. How do you know I’m not? War? Defense only. Life support? If God takes a life that’s Him, not us. It’s a fine line where medical technology should be implemented. That sort of technology SAVES lives that otherwise God would have taken, not the other way around.

      Death penalty? The Bible has it covered–it’s always back to the standard of Scripture.

      “…the Bible said, “Thou shalt not kill,”, quoting from the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20. Yet if you go to Exodus 21, 22, and 23 (the holiness code), God sets forth the provisions for those who break that commandment. For those who murder, God commands that they be executed.

      What is the biblical rationale? Capital punishment is instituted very early in the Old Testament—before Moses, before Sinai, before the Ten Commandments, back in the days of Noah, where God says, “If by man, man’s blood is shed, by man shall his blood be shed.” That’s not a prediction. The structure of the language there is an imperative; it is a command. The reason is given: “Because man is made in the image of God.” In other words, the Bible says that human life is so sacred, so precious, so holy—human life has so much dignity—that if with malice of forethought you wantonly destroy another human being, you thereby forfeit your own right to life. God doesn’t merely allow the execution of murderers; he commands it.” –R.C. Sproul (

      1. Kelly,

        I’m with you about war and artificial life support, but not on the death penalty. Although I’m not Roman Catholic, I think their “seamless garment” point of view of protecting life … all life … including murderers … is the way to go for a several reasons.

        (1) I looked up Exodus 21, starting at verse 12 (subtitled Cases of Personal Injury) and yes, it does plainly say that people who commit certain crimes, such as “anyone who hits a person hard enough to cause death must be put to death (Exodus 12:12, NLT). Being put to death is also the penalty for people guilty of crimes that kill someone else from ‘hand-to-hand’ fighting.

        But verse 15 and verse 17 say that the death penalty is warranted if you strike your mother or father (v. 15) or curse your mother or father (v. 17). When was the last time you heard of a state legislator wrestling whether to impose the death penalty on these sins?

        (In other words, we keep part of the Old Testament laws as part of our criminal code but not others; where we do draw the line?)

        (2) It seems more of a punishment for a murderer to spend the rest of his or her life in prison with no hope for parole than to die of a lethal injection. And it’s more redemptive, still giving the prisoner the chance to become a Christian.

        (3) The death penalty is not currently applied fairly. It has been shown that if you’re poor, whether you are white, black, Hispanic or whatever, you are much more likely to receive the death penalty than someone who is more affluent and can afford to pay for a good lawyer. (This is one reason why the late Chuck Colson wouldn’t currently support the death penalty, although he agreed with it in principle).

        (4) There is also the possibility of executing the wrong person. Our local newspaper just ran an article about some men who were serving long prison sentences who were exonerated due to DNA evidence. I don’t think they weren’t on death row, but what if the court system did not order a DNA test (if it was available), and we subsequently found out that the state killed the wrong person.

        This has probably gone off the reservation by now, but this hit a raw nerve with me. Thanks for listening.

  41. Hello, Kelly.

    I wondered if I could ask you a question.

    I know you are strongly pro-life. I also know that your parents worked with foster kids, and you know many people who have adopted.

    However, what have you done, personally, to support pregnant women who are considering abortion? Have you provided counseling? Provided financial support? Taken in foster children yourself? Worked in an adoption clinic?

    (Someone mentioned that it is hard to help such women. As I’m sure you’ll agree, just because it is hard doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.

    I do believe it is important to take action if we truly believe they should choose another route beside abortion.

    Thank you.

    1. We “visit the orphans and widows in their affliction”. We do not, however, tell other people (especially through a public forum like this blog) about how or what that looks like as that violates a clear biblical command of charity.

  42. I served in the military during war, as a military nurse. I personally would not serve in combat but some women would. Many pilots currently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan are women, their service record is as good as the men serving. One of the greatest military leaders of all times was Joan of Arc.

  43. Great article. Feminism is a lot like Affirmative Action, in that it made women “victims”. What was supposed to empower women by showing they could do things equally as well as men, has shown for women to do many of the same things as men, standards had to be lowered. Just because one doesn’t get what they want or what they feel they’ve earned, doesn’t mean they were discriminated against. Having spent the last 40 years in middle management I can tell you I have seen many changes, particularly among women and their attitudes toward men in the workplace. Just about anything a man does today in the workplace a woman doesn’t like, can be called harassment. It’s assinine that my telling a woman how nice she may look can be considered sexual in nature. We have gone so far overboard in “correctness” in common sense there is no common sense left. Thanks ladies for the opportunity to present a man’s perspective

  44. Either I’m super late to the party, or I commented somewhere up there. Either way, kudos again sister!

    “A mom of a preschooler in NY is outraged because her son’s teacher encourages “gentlemanly” behavior, specifically, encouraging boys to let girls go first. ‘This adorable little boy, who is only beginning to learn the ways of the world, just got his first lesson in sexism…'”

    And now my daughters have to wade through guys like this little boy will someday become, looking for the few good men, because his mother thought that him going first was a better option.

    The teacher is teaching “common” courtesy. Mom is teaching rudeness and self-centeredness.

    There are just no words…

  45. I think there is a very shallow view of feminism and all of its history and complexities. There are for instant radical feminists, womanists, Christian feminism and so on. Feminism is support of the equality and just treatment of women. Feminism was the fight for the right to vote. Feminism was the right of women to have birth control and not only have there husband determine when they would have children (like it or not). Feminism is about the right to have an equal education to a male. For many feminists me absolutely does not mean that they want women to be the same as men but as valued and respected as men. Feminism is saying that we don’t stand for rape victim being bullied and shamed. That women have a right to their sexuality in their own choosing. Feminists are usually the ones writing articles about acid being thrown into the faces of women in India and other places because the women reject men’s flirting. It is feminist to say a woman has as much of a right to wear a bikini as much as it is to wear a one piece or, in the case of France with Muslim women, a burkini (French law is actuall making it illegal for Muslim women or any woman to have swimsuits that cover their body modestly). Feminism fought to say “no men don’t have a right to beat there wives”.

    There are complexities and not all feminists are the same. I am a young woman who believes women can and should be treated with the same respect we give boys and men. I am a Christian as well, I was raised as such as baptized so. I have my own personal views based in my faith so I don’t agree with abortion or pre-marital sex for myself but I don’t feel I have the right to tell another person what to do with their own body. Obviously you all disagree and that’s also fine.

    I know probably no one will change their mind or even consider what I said here but I still encourage you to look up Christian feminism. I believe we should humble hear others and isn’t that part of the faith?

    As for military, there are already women who have volunteered to serve. Let’s not forget that. I think it’s odd that some women hear said “what about periods?” Active duty female soldiers already deal with that. I think drafts are wrong for men and/or women. I also find it sad that so many here and in the rest of America find war so difficult, brutal, and dangerous that we should shield women from it but not men. What does that say about we think of men?

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