Generation Cedar

As Obama quickly pushes his social agendas to the forefront–gay and abortion rights, specifically. I pause, sadly, and reflect on a deep truth.

Everything that opposes God opposes life. We are a culture of death–it’s official. And though abortion is an obvious sign of that, there are many other clues that resemble a more subtle Grim Reaper. The push for homosexual unions (“why does it matter, we all need someone to love“) ignores the biological reality that life cannot be furthered. It is a fruitless union.

Even all the propaganda that encourages “rights and freedom” continues to do nothing but rip families apart and bring death to every member in some form. The language is so beautiful, we almost get swept away…”We’re going to shatter the glass ceiling for women once and for all!”

And they forget about the family that is neglected as Mom marches out to her “earned” agenda that doesn’t make room for the once-honorable, time-intensive job of Home.

The opposite of flourishing is wilting; and where there is not growth, there is atrophy. We are not a growing, flourishing nation. And if you will listen past all the “freedom, peace and love” hoopla, you will see the reality of bondage and death…the exact result prophesied from Scripture 4,000 years ago to the nation that forsakes the laws of God.
(Even practically speaking, think about what happens long-term when more and more couples are fruitless either by the propagation of the homosexual agenda or the abortion agenda–“…the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands.” Psalm 9:16b
Good news…

We–the people of God should become more and more a stark contrast against this backdrop of death. We are the children of light and life! The darker our culture, the brighter His people will shine. And the light will draw some; not all, but those whom He has called.

And as we are given our own families, we MUST view them as our first mission field. This has been the great error of Christians for decades! What are we doing with the “talents” our Master has given to us? Will we multiply them, or bury them?

This is not the time for us to be discouraged. Yes, because we live here, we will reap some of the negative consequences of a nation who sows destruction. But the Lord upholds those whose hearts are turned toward Him.

I believe that we are about to go through a time of “pruning” that will be painful in the short term, but glorious when it is over. Nations go through cycles. We are at the place where all our obstinate choices are about to weigh in.

But that is precisely the place God brings nations in order to bring repentance and restoration and blessing! Arm yourselves, children of God, with the love and valor of the One whom you serve. Be steadfast, be strong. Be ready to share the gospel with those who would listen. We must be about our Father’s business, because America is ripe for answers.

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76 Responses

  1. What a beautiful call to faithfulness. I agree, the times ahead are certainly going to be a time for the light of Christ, in us, to shine through the darkness. May we be found faithful! Even in light of these coming trials I am filled with hope and peace. That is only something our wonderful Father can provide!
    Praying that I am yielded to Him and Him alone, accepting His will with an open hand!

  2. I knew as soon as this man was elected with these agendas, we were going further down this dangerous road. Did you see the worshiping crowds Tuesday? He is their (messiah).
    How has our soceity moved so far away from the principles of God?

    It’s time to break out and dust off the Full Armor of God. Scripture warns of what is becoming of this world. While we wait for our Lord’s return. Come swiftly my Lord!

  3. After going to the White House website and reading the agenda there, I felt a sense of terror. I even had disturbing dreams.

    I told Michael that I wanted to move as far out into the country as I could… and hide!

    Thanks for the encouragement today. I appreciate you.

  4. Kelly,

    *Very* well-put. We have been reading Matthew the last few days… *so* so, good and relevant. “for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” 6:21 and “So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.” 6:34

    We, as Believers have the unique calling to “lay up our treasures in heaven,” and in do doing “let our light so shine before men.” All the while joyfully knowing that we need not worry about tomorrow.

    Truly He alone can give us the “peace that passes all understanding.”

    Thank you! As always, your posts are insightful and challenging.

    Susan

  5. If heterosexuals cannot conceive, is this a fruitless union too? Should they be dissolved? Just asking. 😉

  6. Of course I agree with you! (Except for that I wouldn’t put women in politics in the same anti-life category as abortion and gay rights.)

    😉

  7. MOD,

    Fruitless by ignoring biological blueprints (not to mention the Word of God) and fruitless because of God’s sovereignty over the womb are two different things.

    We are the only species who “mate” with the same sex. (We are also the only species who suppress natural reproduction…just saying.) Interesting observations for the “most intelligent” species alive. Consequently, we are the only species with social mania and a Prozac epidemic 😉

  8. No, we aren’t:

    Homosexual and bisexual behavior are widespread in the animal kingdom: a 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior, has been observed in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them.

    Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species. The motivations for and implications of these behaviors have yet to be fully understood, since most species have yet to be fully studied.

  9. I was about to say the same thing as “mother of dog”. There is homosexual behavior in the animal kingdom.

    I am no fan of abortion, but I don’t get involved with the pro-life movement.

    You guys are going about it the wrong way. Don’t worry about Roe vs Wade. Don’t worry about partial birth abortion laws. Stay out of politics altogether. Stop lining up outside planned parenthood (especially ones that don’t even perform abortions). These things aren’t working. They aren’t stopping abortions. I don’t know why you guys keep trying the same tactics when they don’t work.

    You have to address the root cause of abortions. Mainly poverty. Why not fight and war on poverty and see that helps end abortions? Fight the social stigma of single parenthood. Fight to help non-attritional couples adopt. Fight to make daycare, food, and housing affordable to single couples. Fight to help the parents of sick or disabled children get healthcare.

    These are ways to help stop abortions- not worrying about particular laws and specific wording. Address the causes of abortions and then you will see some results in the pro-life movement.

  10. MOD,

    That is interesting…I wonder how unbiased those studies are?

    Regardless of whether they do or not, the “fruitless union” I mentioned is only ONE reason why Christians reject the homosexual lifestyle. When something is spoken of as an “abomination” in Scripture, that’s the final word. I don’t have to back it up with science.

    Which is why I remain baffled as to why you enjoy discussions here. Since you don’t believe in the Bible, this is nonsense to you.

  11. Seriously, they kill and eat one another. They “mount” one another openly, whether the poor victim wants it or not and sometimes the mounter bites the poor victim.

    Is this what should be “allowed”? I am asking this seriously. It really is no laughing matter. Where do we draw a line if we have no moral basis for anything?

  12. “So should we be allowed to do everything that animals do since they have no moral law?”

    I don’t think anyone is saying that. Just pointing out that “Word Warrior” is incorrect about homosexual behavior in the animal kingdom.

  13. Laura,

    I certainly agree with you here…

    “Stop lining up outside planned parenthood (especially ones that don’t even perform abortions). These things aren’t working. They aren’t stopping abortions. I don’t know why you guys keep trying the same tactics when they don’t work.”

    But your suggested solutions miss the mark too.

    The *root* is the subtle eroding of the sanctity of life, investing in people (children) and home, from where a society is built.

    The root is a ME-centeredness. When I become self-centered, I don’t want anything in my way, including children at the “wrong time”.

    Poverty comes from the failure of one generation to pass down sensible principles about money to the next, and the squandering away of money to feed our selfish desires. (There’s a lot more to this, just short on time.)

    You can be sure solving poverty will not solve abortions! (A large percentage of abortions are performed for affluent families.)

    The root is multi-tentacled; but every ill can be traced to forsaking biblical principles that even work for the non believer.

  14. “A large percentage of abortions are performed for affluent families”

    That would be where ending social stigma comes in.

    “Poverty comes from the failure of one generation to pass down sensible principles about money to the next, and the squandering away of money to feed our selfish desires. “

    Poverty is a level of income. It comes from a certain size family living off a certain income or no income. Low income can often not be controlled because of disability or illness- having nothing to do with the previous generation.

    “The root is a ME-centeredness.”

    Disagree. The root of abortion is social stigma, worry that you can not provide for the child, pressure from family, and worry over the cost of prenatal care and birth. You are over simplifying it.

    “You can be sure solving poverty will not solve abortions!”

    Never said that.

  15. The media keeps preaching “tolerance,” especially to the youth. They are so busy tolerating, tolerating, tolerating that they don’t have time to be a light for Jesus in their schools or their lives.

    It is the same for us. We need to keep our focus on the Lord and not on the world’s agenda. It is sneaky.

    We need to point people to Jesus.

    Great post, my friend.

  16. Good job at staying the course Kelly. The truth raises such an uproar sometimes and I think you do a good job at wading through it all and stating the TRUTH. I love to read Psalm 37 – I should read it every day – For you Christians it says “Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for him; fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass. Cease from anger and forsake wrath: fret not thyself to do evil. For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.”

    You are right Kelly – thank you for the reminder that there is hope and that our example can be a light to those around us.

    “Trust in the Lord, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land,

  17. When something is spoken of as an “abomination” in Scripture, that’s the final word. I don’t have to back it up with science.

    Sigh. Exactly. You’ve just said a mouthful! But you know, the Bible condemns many acts – should we deny adulterers the right to enter into new marriages? That would be the next step, right?

    Can I gracefully point out that nowhere in the Bible is lesbianism condemned. And lesbian couples are fruitful. So obviously there are no doctrines against this practice.

    I don’t think Obama is the Messiah, by the way. I don’t believe in a Messiah. I do believe in a decent, honest man who truly wants to make a difference. We are not “worshipping” Obama. We are happy to finally embrace a president with grit and intelligence. That’s all, people.

  18. I, too, am hoping that the near future will bring a pruning to America. Sometimes, when godless people get what they want, they find that it does not bring happiness. It was not what it was cracked up to be.

    My husband had an interesting experience when he was in the Air Force. This was about 20 years ago:

    My husband was the Technical Sergeant in charge of his shop. He would not permit pornography in the shop, in the way of dirty calendars and pictures, etc. He also did his best to keep a lid on profanity.

    Another sergeant in his shop had a pornographic calendar visible on his desk. My husband ordered him to remove it. He refused. He called in the colonel, and also appealed to the civilian head of the shop. They both told my husband to let the other sergeant have his pornographic calendar.

    My husband appealed to the official Air Force regulation that prohibited pornography in the workplace, and the colonel and civilian boss had to comply. The calendar was removed. Everybody was grumpy about it.

    A little while later, my husband was sent TDY (temporary duty) to another Air Force Base for a couple of months. The sergeant who had owned the pornographic calendar was temporarily put in charge of the shop.

    When my husband’s two-month TDY was over, he came back to his shop. He was greeted with open arms by all of the people in the shop, including the civilian boss!

    “Boy, are we glad you are back!” they exclaimed. “It got so filthy around here that even WE couldn’t stand it. All it was was dirty pictures and dirty talk, and even WE got disgusted!”

    This didn’t even have anything to do with these fellows getting saved, or with a religious revival or anything. They were still, unfortunately, godless, but SICK of all the perversion!

    Wouldn’t it be nice if that happened nation-wide?

  19. Kelly, Thank you so much for the encouraging word. As I was reading all the Obama had already done in just a few days and all that he is planning on doing, I got a huge pit in my stomach. Even as I was telling myself that God is so much bigger than all of this. I was still discouraged to see that all he wants to do is please people. I am praying that he turns his heart towards God and seeks his wisdom.

  20. Laura Ashley said:
    I am no fan of abortion, but I don’t get involved with the pro-life movement.

    You guys are going about it the wrong way. Don’t worry about Roe vs Wade. Don’t worry about partial birth abortion laws. Stay out of politics altogether. Stop lining up outside planned parenthood (especially ones that don’t even perform abortions). These things aren’t working. They aren’t stopping abortions. I don’t know why you guys keep trying the same tactics when they don’t work.

    You have to address the root cause of abortions. Mainly poverty. Why not fight and war on poverty and see that helps end abortions? Fight the social stigma of single parenthood. Fight to help non-attritional couples adopt. Fight to make daycare, food, and housing affordable to single couples. Fight to help the parents of sick or disabled children get healthcare.

    These are ways to help stop abortions- not worrying about particular laws and specific wording. Address the causes of abortions and then you will see some results in the pro-life movement.

    **************

    In some ways I agree with this statement.

    Abortion is an atrocious practice–God will certainly judge those who perform it as well as those who callously look the other way (unless, of course, He opens their eyes and they repent). I am not being “judgmental” but simply stating that God has forewarned us in His Word that all who oppose Him will perish when He judges the world Himself. I don’t see this as a hateful attitude and I am not of the opinion that I, as a believer am to try to coerce anyone into following God. If obedience to God is not done freely, out of love and gratitude, it isn’t going to be of any eternal benefit anyway. Nonetheless, I am required to share the Truth with anyone who is willing to listen–not out of self-righteousness or a desire to lord over with “my” value system but out of LOVE for those who are held captive by Satan and don’t even know it.

    The truth here is that our nation’s laws are simply a reflection of the overall moral climate of our country. It is pointless to fight over legislation when the underlying problem is not addressed.

    That problem is NOT poverty. It’s sin. And I don’t mean an itemized list of “offenses” (abortion, adultery, homosexuality, murder, extortion etc). That list is a natural path that comes after man abandons God’s *first* instruction to have NO gods other than Him. EVERY other act of sin (according to the Biblical definition) stems from rejection of the Creator and Author of “right and wrong”.

    When Adam and Eve rejected God’s instruction to eat of the forbidden fruit, the temptation held out to them was that their “eyes shall be opened, and {they} shall be as God, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:5) They not only wanted to be able to recognize the difference between good and evil apart from God’s supervision but also chose to decide for themselves the DEFINITION of what is good or evil (just as God has already done).

    And to this day, that is what people have been doing–God says (insert attitude/behavior) is pleasing to Him. But rebellious people say “NO THANKS”, we will decide for ourselves what is right or wrong because MAN is his OWN own authority.

    Unless the heart of the issue is addressed on an individualized level, Christians being “political” and getting favorable laws passed is really no more effective than placing a band-aid on a gaping head wound.

    Kelly, I do agree with you that true, Bible believing Christians will certainly stand out more during this time. And we definitely need to start in our own homes and families before trying to guide others within our churches and communities.

    I do hope and pray that those to whom Jesus is calling will respond and be willing to allow Him to save them from the promised wrath of God.

    Heather

  21. M.O.D.

    Since you mentioned the lesbian issue…
    Sex outside of marriage is sin in the Bible (whether heterosexual or homo). I don’t think I need to even list all of the Scriptures because I think that is common knowledge to anyone who has a clue about the Bible.
    But that’s beside the point since to you, it really doesn’t matter. Just clarifying since you brought it up.

    We have all sinned; there is no doubt about that and without the love of God, none of us deserve anything.

    I would not withold love from someone because they are sinning (gay or not… I have a dear friend who recently “came out”) . (I Cor. 13)

    But having said all of that…

    Unfortunately redefining marriage is a serious mistake,and crosses a forbidden line. Marriage is very sacred, and as I have already pointed out.. if we start re-defining everything, it is a recipe for disaster.
    Think… polygamy.. marriage to animals, the list goes on.
    If we re-define marriage, then what other sacred institutions will we try to redefine?
    It’s just something to think about.

    And Heather, I highly agree with everything you had to say. You have a way with wording things that I struggle to say myself.

    And I must add (talking to myself here) that we need to examine ourselves and look at our own lives for unconfessed sin and most of all
    1.Loving the Lord our God with all our hearts
    2.loving our neighbors as ourselves (including those who disagree with us)…

    Thanks…

  22. “That problem is NOT poverty. “

    Yes it is. Who has the hardest time providing for child with healthcare, housing, and food? The poor. If you cannot provide for children you are less likely to have them.

    You can argue that abortion is sinful to Christians. Most would agree. So then you can stop some Christians from having abortions. Most people in the world aren’t Christian, so that hardly solves the problem.

    The main reasons people get abortions (social stigma, poverty, family pressure, cost of birth/prenatal care, etc…) must be address to reduce the number of abortions.

    Or you care about the wording of the law more than reducing the number of actual abortions.

  23. “Oh my. This is timely, as today I read that Obama is lifting the Mexico City Ban and restoring funding to the UNFPA. Ugh.”

    Again, don’t worry about stuff like that. You want to stop abortions in under developed countries? Find out the reason the women are having abortions there. Then use your time and resources to fight that.

  24. MOD,

    “And lesbian couples are fruitful.”

    No, they are not. They may be able to artificially bear children, but the “fruitfulness” I’m referring to is a natural occurrence of nature. In other words, the fact that two men or two women cannot naturally bear children because it is physically impossible (not because God has closed the womb) is a fruitless union.

    I’m astonished at the need to belabor this obvious point. It wasn’t even my main point. And as Kim pointed out, sex between the same gender–man or woman–IS forbidden in the Bible.

    Not sure what “not allowing adulterers to remarry” has to do with the above argument…there are some who believe this to be biblical too though.

  25. Laura,

    You are still missing the mark. (By the way, we haven’t even gotten to “under developed countries”…we’re just talking about America, where, by most of the world’s estimation, there is no poverty. So that kind of blows a whole in your poverty theory.

    Furthermore, even if we agreed poverty is the main reason people have abortions, do you realize the absurdity of that reasoning?

    So my husband gets sick, and our medical bills start to add up. We can’t “afford” that, so I must shoot him.

    My son gets into a car accident and is paralyzed. Can’t afford it. Kill him.

    As absurd as that sounds, that is the same logic. The unborn life is a life just as valuable as my husband’s and son’s. It should not be disposable. “Not affording it” should not be a factor in deciding if someone gets to live.

    Politically speaking, it’s a basic violation of the Constitution.

    Look for a fabulous article discussing the absurdity of “groups rights” in the next post.

  26. Laura Ashley said: The root of abortion is social stigma, worry that you can not provide for the child, pressure from family, and worry over the cost of prenatal care and birth.

    This is a very untrue statement. Having done work with abortion survivors, and knowing many others personally who have suffered the pains of abortion and some who have bravely decided not to go through with it, the majority of those who have abortions are from wealthy families.

    They are children who have made poor choices and are afraid to deal with their parents, they are married wives who don’t want to deal with another child, they are career women who don’t want children yet. But you see, these are not the women who are vocal about their choices to murder their children, these are the ones who go in secret and hope for continuing secrecy.

    In fact, most of the women who end up deciding not to go through with abortions are the ones in poverty. They oftentimes feel their reasons for seeking abortions are valid, but know that their choices would be selfish based on their circumstances. They end up being unable to justify the murder, and in the end bring their children into the world with nothing to give them but love.

    You see, the media, the politicians, the pro-death groups they show us the women in poverty who seek abortions, they talk about them and focus on them… but they are taking our focus off of what is real.

    Fighting poverty is righteous, but in no way will it end abortions or even slow them down.

  27. WW, you’re a braver woman than I. I don’t even try to argue with these people anymore. I’ve completely given up, it’s just maddening to me.

  28. “That problem is NOT poverty. “

    Yes it is. Who has the hardest time providing for child with healthcare, housing, and food? The poor. If you cannot provide for children you are less likely to have them.

    You can argue that abortion is sinful to Christians. Most would agree. So then you can stop some Christians from having abortions. Most people in the world aren’t Christian, so that hardly solves the problem.

    The main reasons people get abortions (social stigma, poverty, family pressure, cost of birth/prenatal care, etc…) must be address to reduce the number of abortions.

    Or you care about the wording of the law more than reducing the number of actual abortions.
    **********************

    Laura,

    I didn’t come in here to argue with anyone. Did you perhaps read my entire comment? If you are not a Christian, I don’t expect you to recognize what I am trying to say, but I’m willing to try again.

    The “list of sins” that Bible believing Christians cannot agree to support is secondary to the fact that humanity (as a unit) has rejected God as Supreme Authority.

    I fully understand that a majority of the world population is not Christian. That was actually part of my point. For Christians to try to fight on a political or intellectual level against “abortion” is a losing battle because the real problem is not with intelligence, politics or even our circumstances.

    The book of Genesis states that God created everything to be “good”. The world was once perfect and offered everything the human race needed i order to survive and even thrive.

    Even poverty exists because of man’s rebellion against God.

  29. One of the confusions of this debate is that non-Christians feel the Bible holds no message for them. And while Christians can’t force others to believe in God or love and obey Him, we would do well to realize that the foundations of our government, though hardly recognizable, were based on the universal principles of Scripture.

    That is, all people profit from not murdering; not committing adultery, being kind, extending help to the needs, etc.

    And our laws were based on such truths, originally given by God, the Creator of His universe.

    So fundamentally, abortion is bad for everyone; homosexuality is bad for everyone. Anything opposing biblical principles is bad, whether you believe in God or not.

    That’s why sinners can still be moral; they can still uphold sensible principles that were originally from God.

    So while I feel we must call believers to obey God out of obedience, we can also encourage non-believers to grasp the truth that the Bible holds wisdom that benefits a people who follow it.

    You don’t have to be a Christian to agree that killing a child in the womb is wrong. We must jar our dulled instincts that would have told anyone this a hundred years ago.

    Hope this made some sense…got a lot of different threads running through my head!

  30. Yes it’s true that we are all living in “scary” and unpredictable times. The bible talks about this and therefore, it should not come as any real “surprise” for any Christian who believes in Christ.

    However, I think too much energy is spent worrying about Mr. Obama’s new policies. If your faith is in Christ, what is there to worry about? “So we take comfort and are encouraged and confidently and boldly say, The Lord is my Helper; I will not be seized with alarm [I will not fear or dread or be terrified]. What can man do to me?” (Hebrews 13:6; Amplified Bible Version).

    I didn’t vote for Obama. I don’t agree with his policies (I think some of them are pointless). However, I don’t want to get all “worked-up” about it either. What good does that do? Let’s just do our part and continue to be the light in the world in order to glorify our Father in Heaven as well as hopefully win the hearts of men and women to come to Christ.

    It’s natural to be concerned ( I know we are – husband and I) but remember who is in charge. Obama is NOT in charge. God is! “. . . Truly, every man at his best is merely a breath! Selah [pause, and think calmly of that]!” (Psalms 39:5b; Amplified Bible Version)

  31. This is in regard to the comment that the Bible doesn’t mention the sin of lesbianism so it must be alright.
    Romans 1:26
    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

  32. Oh my, Heather, very well worded, good job!

    Kelly, well you go girl!

    Mrs. Lady Sofia, GREAT scripture, thanks for the reminder. I have been purposing to not read all the junk this week. I am determined to stay focused on what the Lord has called me to do…raise up a generation to serve Him and be a light in this wicked and depraved generation. Full time job, you know 😉

    Those of you who are not Christians and do not believe the Word of God, you know what the predominate beliefs expressed here are and if these contradict your own, why do you keep coming here? Just curious.

    Oh bother, what started out as a very encouraging post has turned into back and forth over homosexual animals, lesbianism…sigh…missing the point I think.

    Michelle
    http://www.shelookethwell.blogspot.com

    Thank you Kelly.

  33. Yes, Aimee, I was going to quote Romans 1, “…even their women.” The N.T. condemns lesbianism.

    Speaking of animals and homosexuality — yes, maybe it exists in the animal kingdom, but it is still not normal. Many abnormal things happen in the animal kingdom.

    If an animal breeder, say a dog breeder, or a cattle breeder, were to notice that their animals were becoming homosexual and mating with other animals of their own gender, they would be ALARMED.

    And, animals do lots of things that we would think were awful, like “go to the bathroom” in public or out in the street. So, we should be able to do it?

    All of the women that I personally know who have had abortions were middle-class women.

    I once had a Puerto Rican friend, a registered nurse, who was irate that Planned Parenthood put the abortions clinics “in our neighborhoods and in the Black neighborhoods…hoping…”

    Well, she said, “We Puerto Rican and Black women keep our babies. It is the middle-class white girls who are the ones getting the abortions, but they keep putting those abortion clinics in OUR neighborhoods…hoping…”.

  34. Amy,

    Your personal experience doesn’t make anything statisticly true. Please read the CDCs report on abortions, you will find that most people who get abortions are unmarried and young (poverty).
    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5407a1.htm You also proved my point for me when you said that women don’t want to deal with their parents (social stigma).

    Word Warrior,

    I don’t know what America you live in, but in this one there are homeless people living on the streets, almost %8 unemployment (millions of people) and millions not getting enough to eat. Yes there is poverty in America.

    I’m not agrueing for pro-choice, so you can stop with the examples of killing your family off.

    Go back to CDC report on abortion. You will find that most are unmarried. Being unmarried would put you in a bind when you reach the point you can no longer work.

    Please also read this WebMD article. http://women.webmd.com/tc/abortion-reasons-women-choose-abortion Not being able to support the child is one of the top reasons. Also about 30% are teens, who undoubtly make very little money.

  35. “Many abnormal things happen in the animal kingdom.”

    Yes, animals that are homosexual are likely born that way.

  36. Being poor is no excuse to kill somebody! There is help out there! The motivation for abortion is selfishness, or because of the consequences of immorality (the stigma).

    Nobody is born a homosexual, any more than anybody is born an adulterer, etc., although we are all born with a sinful nature, the Bible says. Some people have predilictions toward certain types of sins, due to things like alcoholism running in families, or whatever.

    When each of my two sons was born, the doctor said, “It’s a BOY!” The doctor didn’t say, “It’s a HOMOS*XUAL!” The doctor always says, it is a boy or a girl. The doctor know what it is.

    This is what comes from thinking that human beings are animals, instead of beings created in the image of God, unlike the dogs and the pigs and the chickens.

    “Monkey men make monkey morals.”
    –Author Unknown.

  37. WOW! Very well written and lots of great thoughts. Thank you for sharing. I especially appreciate the insight that said a gay union produces “no fruit.” No growth can happen. WOW!

    Speaking of growth, baby #5 is on it’s way! 🙂 I knew you’d be happy to hear that there is a family excited about pro-creation! 🙂

    Jess in Peru

  38. “Being poor is no excuse to kill somebody! There is help out there! “

    There are food stamps, WIC and Section 8. But of course receptionists of such have to deal with conservative types complaining about living off their tax dollars. And funds for such programs are drying up now with the economy. Churches help where they can, but many churches are having trouble keeping their own doors open much less help others.

  39. If it’s o.k. for people to behave like animals, when Obama comes for my husbands hard earned money (he will have worked 19 hrs. today!) in order to “spread the wealth” around, can I bite him?

    Just asking. That’s what my Mom’s dog does when the other dog goes for his Nylabone. 😉

    Great post Kelly. There was a time I would have let weeks like this get me down. Thanks to folks such as yourself encouraging us, I am able to keep focused on that “blessed hope” (Titus 2:13)

  40. I agree that the problem is a society that has turned away from God. If God is not real, there are no rules. No rules = no personal responsibility. (It’s not my fault. I shouldn’t have to deal with the consequences.)

    It is simple. If you have heterosexual relations, you are very likely to become pregnant. (The immaculate conception has already happened.) If you do not want to become pregnant, abstain from sexual relations.

    It doesn’t matter if you are rich or poor, young or old. People need to accept the consequences of their actions.

  41. “If it’s o.k. for people to behave like animals, when Obama comes for my husbands hard earned money (he will have worked 19 hrs. today!) in order to “spread the wealth” around, can I bite him? “

    And that is exactly the attitude that make people shy away from social services and then don’t believe they can afford to care for a child. Then they have an abortion. Look no further than yourselves for causes of abortion.

  42. Laura Ashley,
    I know what the CDC report says, but I also don’t believe everything that I read. People lie. I know for a fact that a good many of the women who go in for an abortion dress down for the somber event, and when giving any information about themselves they lie.

    Middle-class Mrs. A with two children and a hard-working husband doesn’t want baby 3, but she also wants to distance herself completely from what she is about to do. She has an appointment as Ms. B, single, working a minimum wage job. There we go, another lady in “poverty” for the CDC’s statistics.

    I am not claiming that poverty isn’t a HUGE problem and that women in poverty don’t seek abortions. In fact, many women in poverty who do get abortions, don’t actually get them because of their financial situations. They know about adoption, they know they could have all medical expenses paid…their reasons are still selfish. They don’t want to deal with the pregnancy.

    I agree with you that the ways that Pro-life christians deal with abortion is usually unproductive and often does more harm than good. I do feel though, that you, and many others, are being misled. Poverty is a big problem and abortion is terrible, but they don’t go hand in hand. We need to not lose focus on what the real issues are, because when we do we become ineffective. We begin fighting against the wrong thing (I am not talking about poverty, YES, we need to fight poverty, but not at the expense of fighting abortion).

    Remember that we are not fighting against flesh and blood, but against the powers of darkness. Darkness and death go hand in hand. That is the cause of abortion. People are in darkness, and in darkness they have a disdain for human life. They can blame whatever they want, the root cause is the darkness they live in.

    We cannot get sidetracked by other causes…causes which are valid and we should fight against ALSO, but NOT instead of.

    I believe Kelly’s post is reminding us that we have the tools to fight against abortion AND poverty…we have Jesus. His light will shine in the darkness and those who will, will come out of the darkness and into the light. Jesus has conquered the power of death, those who come out of the darkness will be freed from the disdain for human life.

    Our job is to be faithful and let Him shine and work through us.

  43. Laura,

    You know very well that it was not meant that way. Don’t be so defensive.

    An unwanted pregnancy can be a consequence of a sinful action (sex outside of marriage) but all babies are blessings given by the Lord. If we choose to sin, we must deal with the consequence (unwanted pregnancy). We have no right to play God and determine that a baby should die, just so we do not have to take responsibility for raising it.

  44. “I know what the CDC report says, but I also don’t believe everything that I read.”

    The CDC is reliable. You experiences however don’t amount to much statistically. They are just that- your experience.

    “They know about adoption”

    Do you think a biracial baby with down syndrome has a good chance of adoption? How about a premature baby whose mother has a history of drug abuse? What about a baby who will need multiple operations? Adoptive parents may not even be able to afford medical care if they do want to adopt them. These babies go to foster care and group homes.

    “I do feel though, that you, and many others, are being misled.”

    By who? From what? How do you know what I believe?

    I was a unwed teenage mother. I have done extensive research for the past 10 years on the subject of abortion. My opinions come from that research though, not necessarily from my experience.

    “but they don’t go hand in hand”

    Yes they do. Look at the statistics. Single young mothers. With 30% being under 20.

    “We need to not lose focus on what the real issues”

    And what is that? Do you think the pro-life movement should continue to use tactics that aren’t working? Why continue to fight laws when that has not worked?

    G.W Bush was the most conservative president in a 50 years, yet funding to Planned Parenthood increased under him. If pro-life groups couldn’t do much of anything against him then they need to change.

    The average person can help to stop abortions. They can donate formula, blankets, books, cribs, clothes, etc…They can help pay for pregnant unwed mothers to get job training. They can offer to babysit when the mother needs to work if she isn’t able to get daycare assistance. They can be supportive if a mother needs WIC or Section 8- not make snide remarks.

  45. Laura, you said “They can donate formula, blankets, books, cribs, clothes, etc…They can help pay for pregnant unwed mothers to get job training. They can offer to babysit when the mother needs to work if she isn’t able to get daycare assistance. They can be supportive if a mother needs WIC or Section 8- not make snide remarks.”

    I do agree with all of this. Christians, especially, should be doing these things. And many, many are. They will not end abortions though.

    “I was a unwed teenage mother.”

    It is wonderful that you chose life for your child. My husband was an unwed teenage father. His son was born when he was 15. The biological mother left almost immediately. If not for my husband’s insistence, that wonderful child, OUR 13 year old son, would never have been born. We, too, have done research. We know what “the facts” say. We also have experience. We have put much into showing the blessing of children, to helping others to see that, even in painful situations.

    I know that there is much work to be done, and as I said before, that work begins by being a light in the darkness…which is what Christ has called each of His followers to do.

  46. I’ve sort of stayed out of this, but I have a few lil things to say. I mean, I’m so liberal I’m almost a socialist, but I’m weird about abortion. I believe that we need to work to PREVENT the need for abortions.

    I am only 27, married for 2 years. I have a 17 yr old step daughter. I love her dearly. I’m glad the my husband and my babygirl’s mom made the RIGHT choice.

    My problem with this whole discussion is that we all have to figure out how to function together. I mean, my hubband and I are (mostly) Taoists. Most of you are Christians. I hate abortion, cause it actually messes with MY philosophical/ religious ideals. Taoism involves following the natural state, the “Path” the “Way.” Terminating life doesn’t fall into that category of thinking. I was not raised with religion, but I was educated enough to make a reasonable choice about sex YOUNG. I was not going to get involved until I was old enough to deal with a baby. I knew that an abortion would never be my choice. I’m in a hard spot right now, because I have been advised against getting pregnant for medical reasons. Here is my ‘perfect solution.’ Let’s ALL work together to combat abortion, YES!!! By EDUCATING carefully. I want so badly to see us all get along (cheesy, no?). I DO NOT want to ruffle feathers on Kelly’s blog. AT ALL. but i wish there was some way we could stop this. Abortion is a useless miserable waste of life, but can we all find a way to combat this that doesn’t involve converting the entire population to Christianity???

  47. Laura Ashley wrote:
    “Do you think a biracial baby with down syndrome has a good chance of adoption? How about a premature baby whose mother has a history of drug abuse? What about a baby who will need multiple operations?”

    VERY simple answer: YES!!!!!!!!! Absolutely YES!!!!!!!!!!!

  48. And that is exactly the attitude that make people shy away from social services and then don’t believe they can afford to care for a child. Then they have an abortion. Look no further than yourselves for causes of abortion.

    I don’t need to look at myself as a cause of abortion because before I was saved, I too was an unwed mother at the age of 18. I had no job. I grew up very pro choice and yet when it came down to it, murder was wrong. Reasons don’t matter.

    It is never my fault that someone else chooses to murder their baby. We have every right to complain when our President chooses to “spread our wealth” to fund something that is morally objectionable to us. Especially in other countries. We aren’t complaining that he signed a bill to help unwed mothers with getting jobs etc… He didn’t do that! This is a man that calls children a “punishment. ” We believe they are blessings.

    If parents were to raise their children with less “Me” centeredness as Kelly calls it, perhaps they would be more charitable. In the end, it is up to me what I do with my money. My husband has worked very hard for it. The government shouldn’t have the right to take it especially for murdering people.

  49. “The government shouldn’t have the right to take it especially for murdering people.”

    I agree that the goverment shouldn’t use tax dollars to pay for abortions. But I’m talking about soical programs that help mothers care for their children. If you didn’t have a job someone helped you so you could keep your baby. Social programs are for those that don’t have that type of help. You of all people should understand that.

    “VERY simple answer: YES!!!!!!!!! Absolutely YES!!!!!!!!!!!”

    I disagree. Even willing fmailies will have trouble paying the medical bills. A baby that will needs an organ transplant will take at least a million dollars. How many people do you know with a million dollars?

  50. Laura Ashley,

    Without meaning any insult, I think you are terribly misled over “reasons and solutions” for abortion.

    Regarding abortion due to poverty:
    “Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0% of all abortions.”

    This is the highest percentage of abortions performed in the rank of income. This is not poverty level. Unless you consider poverty level not being able to buy a child everthing his heart desires.

    Consider this:

    “64.4% of all abortions are performed on never-married women.”

    This is the highest category of abortions performed. One obvious solution is to embrace pre-marital abstinence in our culture, instead of passing out condoms (which has done nothing but increase levels of unwanted pregnancies.)

    (This is why we don’t embrace “recreational dating”, and one reason why we homeschool–to ensure WE are the ones passing on life-enriching values to our children.)

    If government-assisted programs were part of the answer, then why have abortions increased annually DESPITE the constant increase in government-subsidized programming?

    It’s a *pleasnt* thing to think that the main reason women seek abortion is unaffordability, but it is absolutely not true.

    (And the fact that 1 in 5,000 babies are born with defects has nothing to do with a woman’s choice to give her baby up for adoption–it IS an option. Most of the time, the mother doesn’t even know the baby has a birth defect until birth.

    To reason that “it’s better to kill a baby than to give a less-than-perfect one the chance to live is a whole different problem of ethics.

  51. I think that Kelly and several of the women who have commented on this site have been very open with the fact that they, too, were unwed mothers at one time. These are not sanctimonious, rich women who have never been in a predicament.

  52. Even practically speaking, think about what happens long-term when more and more couples are fruitless either by the propagation of the homosexual agenda….

    You know, I find it kind of interesting that people STILL believe that homosexuality is somehow “intended.” That it can be passed on like a germ. Do you seriously believe that? I don’t think it’s easy to be gay, and I don’t think (and science backs me up here) that it’s a choice or an agenda – one is or isn’t. I have friends who are gay and parents and they are terrific parents who have raised wonderful, polite and intelligent children. So they aren’t “fruitless.”

    Further – there is much evidence that homosexuality occurs in 1 in 10 children – and the more children you have, the greater the change, obviously. So what would you do if one of your children tells you that they are gay? I’m curious.

    As to abortion, there have been abortions since the dawn of time. The only difference is that now they are safe. I imagine everyone thinks they are sad – I don’t think they inspire parties for anyone! But I’m reality-based, you see. I don’t want a 14 year old girl dying from a dirty knitting needle. That’ s much worse option.

  53. MOD,

    The Bible tells man and woman to be fruitful and increase in number.

    God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number
    Gen 1:28 (NIV)

    He is speaking to Adam and Eve, not 2 Adams or 2 Eves. It is physically impossible for 2 men or 2 women to procreate. So Biblical fruitfulness, which is what we have been speaking of, is between a man and a woman.

    Biblical fruitfulness also speaks of raising children in the fear of the Lord.

    “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

    Prov 9:10 (NIV)

    God speaks of homosexuality as an abomination.

    If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination
    Lev 20:13 (NKJV)

    Homosexuality is a sin. You either choose to sin or you don’t. So yes, it is a choice. Look at the Exodus International website. It is a site founded by recovering homosexuals. Many are now married with families.

    Current studies that show that children have homosexual tendencies are performed by groups who have ties to the homosexual agenda. Back in the 1970’s, two men wrote a book called “After the Ball”, that told exactly how to go about indoctrinating our society into accepting homosexuality. A group of radical homosexuals have been following this agenda over the last 35 or so years.

    ___________________________________
    As to abortion, there have been abortions since the dawn of time. The only difference is that now they are safe.

    ___________________________________

    They are certainly not safe for the innocent lives who are being brutally murdered.

  54. MOD,

    “I don’t think it’s easy to be gay, and I don’t think (and science backs me up here) that it’s a choice or an agenda – one is or isn’t.”

    To help you understand how we (Christians) think about homosexuality…(I, too, am very familiar with the lifestyle by close association–I don’t embrace my beliefs about it lightly.)

    The same could be said of a man strongly bent toward pornography. He feels “born” that way…he is drawn, by compulsion. And he absolutely does have stronger tendencies toward it than other people.

    At the same time, we agree that it’s not good, it’s harmful, and wrong.

    What is he to do? Freedom from that bondage of sin is only found in Christ; and even then, he may struggle with his addiction for the rest of his life.

    I struggle with anger; it is sin. But the Bible tells me that “the works of the flesh are wrath”, and a bunch of others.

    And as such, I cannot resign to my anger because I am compelled, or born that way, or because certain experiences in my childhood predisposed me that way.

    Some feel compelled to steal; others to commit acts of violence.

    We are all born in sin, and are given to sin, and are enabled to overcome our sin only through the power of the Redemption of Christ.

    Just so you know where I’m coming from…

  55. Quinn wrote:
    “If it’s o.k. for people to behave like animals, when Obama comes for my husbands hard earned money (he will have worked 19 hrs. today!) in order to “spread the wealth” around, can I bite him?”

    Thanks for the laugh! I needed one this morning and this just struck me as so funny!

  56. This is wayyyyy off topic, but did anyone here have the inclination to watch the movie “Prayers For Bobby?” with Sigourney Weaver on Lifetime this weekend?

    Ever since I have left my small fundamentalist box, many subjects had to be revisited, homosexuality being one of them.

    I beleive this movie presented a very good lesson. Even if someone is homosexual, you accept them AS THEY ARE. I think something that often gets pushed to the back of the mind is that God first accepted us, and CONTINUES to accept us just as we are. When He gave Jesus up, that was the agreement he was making. (whether WE accepted HIM or not, IMO is where problems come in….etc).

    It just seems like abortion and homosexuality are raised above other sins….the homosexual, if he converts, only has so much time to ‘knock it off’ before the body becomes impatient and tired of him….if a mother yells at her kids, demeaning their very lives, we can be so much more patient than with someone who has an abortion.

    While I am not sure if I beleive in SPECIFIC predisposition (meaning bipolar dads beget bipolar kids, alcoholic dads beget alcoholic kids, adulterous moms beget adulterous kids, and so on……)I do believe in the predisposition to bearing the evils, consequences, and ramifications of sin, manifested in ourselves-whether we ask for it or not. We do not always ‘choose’ our struggle.

    I struggle very much, as a christian-with whether people who practice homosexuality choose it …i really dont think they do. Many homosexual men and women display certain physical and emotioanl characterisitics super-young. I do not think they are lying at all when they say they knew at a very young age.

    I think the most important lesson is to accept people for who and where they are. Jesus did that for me. When I start seriously worrying over my sin yto the point that I forget that God accepts me, I am just no good to anyone. The shame comes right back, and I need grace.

    So many of us can hide behind our less socially-obvious sin. I dont condemn a person who practices homosexuality because I know the very sin i commit today measures me. Many homosexual people probably dont even practice it! are they sinning, just for BEING homosexual? or is it only the PRACTICE of it that is sin? It is something worth studying, as if the fact they were born this way (which I realize some here dont believe…) does not condemn them, then we need to be careful. Because I dont know if it is necessary for a homosexual to ‘turn’ heterosexual. No more than i believe someone who is bi-polar needs to turn 100% mentally healthy…they just need to try and stop ACTING in ways that are harmful to themselves and others.

    I realize my insertion here is way off topic Kelly…..I am just curious though what others think. I have struggled with this topic for a long time. Does it mean those who are either born homosexual, or grow into it-that their best choice is to reamin celibate? Because I know God desires us to accept people for WHO they are and we need to be very careful to separate who someone is form what they do……or all of us are in disatrous trouble.

  57. AM,

    I know what you’re trying to say, but I fear it is tainted with a spiritual relativism that has infected a large sector of the church. (May I remind you that according to the world, Christianity is a “little box”. Jesus was narrow-minded, so must we be.)

    You said:

    “I think the most important lesson is to accept people for who and where they are. Jesus did that for me. When I start seriously worrying over my sin yto the point that I forget that God accepts me, I am just no good to anyone.”

    While Jesus died for us “while we were yet sinners”, that doesn’t mean all stand acceptable, i.e. “redeemed” before Him.

    His are known by their fruits, and their obedience. A willful lifestlye of sin is vastly different than my daily struggle with sin over which I am grieved, repentant, and trying to overcome.

    That difference is crucial. Jesus was not tolerant of the unrepentant. He always requires us to “go and sin no more”, meaning, to love Him is to desire to obey. I don’t “stay where I am” because God will love me anyway.

  58. I wanted to weigh in here about homosexuality, as I have dealt with it most of my life, and don't think anyone here has, personally. A commenter on here forwarded me comments by authenticallyme.

    I do not believe people are born gay. They may be born with a predisposition, like to become an alcoholic, etc, and under the right circumstances, they may turn out gay, and may not – hence your feminine type boys who are actually heterosexual.

    Homosexuality, and all sexual sins, are raised above other sins all too often, and in some ways, that makes sense, as sexual sins can be more far reaching in consequences, but all too often, people struggling with this issue do so in silence – they are afraid what their church and friends will say, so they struggle for years with a cross that is heavy to carry.

    It is a sin. We cannot sugarcoat it to make the homosexuals happy. In some ways, accepting it and sugarcoating it can do a lot of harm, even to our freedoms via hate speech and hate crimes. We cannot do humanity a service by saying it is ok and the Bibe is wrong.

    Animals are not a good excuse to say it is ok – animals also eat their young and commit suicide – that isn't normal and ok. To say homosexuality must be normal because some animals do it, is to say it is normal for humans to eat their young, have sex with their kids, sisters, etc. No way.

    I do not believe it is a sin to have homosexual desires and attractions – most of cannot help it that we do. I have my ideas, supported by many others, won't go into that here – the sin is acting out on those desires. In some ways, we are just like the heterosexual male – if he is Christian, he must battle lust and sexual thoughts that are wrong. The difference is, he can marry and focus that in an approved relationship by God – homosexuals cannot.

    If you are a Christian, you need to fight against the homosexual agenda that wants to take over marriage, the schools, your children, but remember, they all aren't that way. Many want to live a quiet life out of the limelight and be left alone. Others, like me, agree that the Bible says the lifestyle & sexual acts are wrong, and we must either rise above it and live a heterosexual life, or live a celibate life and depend on God to help us stay pure. Easy? No way. It is harder than anyone would ever realize. Worth it? You betca.

    I wish they were right – that it is ok. It would be so much easier, but the Bible is very clear – homosexuality is wrong. Period. For those who disagree, I would question why of all the sexual sins God condemned, why would He be wrong on that one?

    Hope I have made some sense, and answered questions. Feel free to reply, or go to my just started blog if you have questions. I am not an expert, but considering where I have been, and what I have dealt with, I may be on my way to being an expert 🙂

    In closing, everyone should read a letter from a homosexual to the church:
    http://pfox.org/The_need_for_male-mentors.html

  59. Struggler,

    This is an incredibly spiritually mature reply, and I commend you for clinging to truth. I love that you said “it’s hard”. I think so many of our culture’s problems boil down to our trying to escape what is hard. We were never given that option. Many things are hard. And as you mentioned, it’s worth it to “do the right thing, come what may”.

    Thank you.

  60. Struggler,

    Thank you for your insightful comments.

    Amazing… and hopeful!

    I am personally committing myself to pray for you.

    Thanks again!

  61. Hi Kelly….I dont know much about spiritual relativism….and I actually agree with most you say…

    ***While Jesus died for us “while we were yet sinners”, that doesn’t mean all stand acceptable, i.e. “redeemed” before Him.***

    What I meant is, first and foremost, people need to know they are accepted AS THEY ARE, to even fathom continuing on in a lifestyle of Christianity, which includes OVERCOMING. I know I got caught up in ‘performing’ quite quickly after my conversion at age 22….instead of being able to reflect on my acceptedness by God. I see many today struggling why they dont overcome. I wonder if it is a common problem that people dont understand God is FOR them and ACCEPTS them today. I love my children everyday and accept the reality of where they are everyday in their growth. I hope it is BECAUSE of that love expressed to them, that they desire to tarry on forward. To try. To know they are accepted evben when they fall, so that they have the will to get up and try again.

    I was not trying to say there is not, IMO, criteria to the afterlife….eternal life. I was speaking more about “what can we do now to come alongside people?”

    ***His are known by their fruits, and their obedience. A willful lifestlye of sin is vastly different than my daily struggle with sin over which I am grieved, repentant, and trying to overcome.***

    Agreed. (just a side note: Though I dont think we can always determine ‘grief’ over sin just by what we see on the outside. God knowsx many a time i looked hearthearted and a waste of time to people on the outside…..but when i was all alone, my heart had times of breaking over my actions.)

  62. Hi Struggler……

    I feel almost famous that only *my* comments got recognition by forwarding. Hahahaha….

    ***Homosexuality, and all sexual sins, are raised above other sins all too often, and in some ways, that makes sense, as sexual sins can be more far reaching in consequences, but all too often, people struggling with this issue do so in silence – they are afraid what their church and friends will say, so they struggle for years with a cross that is heavy to carry.***

    Why? Becasue what people will say. THAT is a biggie I was *trying* to make a point on. That if these people KNEW they were accepted just as they are, just as they arrive..perhaps they wouldnt be so shame-filled, or frightened. IMO the first step to overcoming, if one chooses to do so-is beign accepted. God knew that we needed that to tarry on, so he provided that. Jesus is there, right now, available to any alive and breathing human being-waiting with full acceptance of WHO THEY ARE. WHAT THEY DO-to me is a separate issue. What we do carries consequences. WHO WE ARE doesnt. (my opinion). I know some may say what we do makes us who we are….I still believe behavior is different, and handled differently, by God.

    ***I do not believe it is a sin to have homosexual desires and attractions – most of cannot help it that we do. I have my ideas, supported by many others, won’t go into that here – the sin is acting out on those desires. In some ways, we are just like the heterosexual male – if he is Christian, he must battle lust and sexual thoughts that are wrong.***

    I was partially trying to say that as well. Cannot really figure out what I said that was so off-base, except that I focus more on the accepting part than pointing out behavioral issues. Some are better at teaching behavior if they so desire. I am better at embracing people; I tend to believe compassion and mercy are my gifts.

    I do agree that IF something is wrong, it is a disservice to say otherwise. Doing that only confuses the person as to why their conscience then bothers them. But the same happens on the other side of the wall. Sometimes, people are accused of sin when none is there-those people unfortunately devlop over-active guilty consciences. Very hard to change, as I am one of those. I suppose being balanced is key, as calling sin when there is no sin is just as equally disastrous to the individual in question. Naturally sicne I have been more affected through life experince by the latter scenario, I tend to defend that side of the quarter…..take care.

  63. Oh Kelly, I wanted to clarify one more thing…

    I suppose maybe our definitions of “acceptance” and “redemmed” differ. I view acceptance as something that God does for us all the time. Redeemed is something DONE for us, possibly unless we turn our backs. Accepted means loved to me; redemption means pleasing and clean. Everyone is accepted…not everyone is redeemed. Everyone is alowed and called……..not all take God up on it though. So my version of ‘acceptance’ might be where I lost you….or maybe not.

  64. Struggler…..another question comes to mind…

    I know you say you dont believe you were BORN gay. I am open to possibly believing that people arent born that way; I am just not sure yet. Anyway, my question is this: Do you believe that either way YOU didnt necessarily CHOOSE it? meaning, to BE that way????

    I know to act out on it is a different story, with anything. I am simply speaking of BEING homosexual..do you think you chose that too, or that possibly life experiences, traumas, or inefficiencies contributed?

  65. Wow, authenticallyme, what in inquisitive mind you have! J As long as the lovely blog owner is OK with it, I don’t mind discussing the issue more. I do apologize for the length – I am sorry madam blogger! I typed it all out and was horrifed at out long I went. First off, the “born gay” myth. I believe circumstances can hurt and break young boys and they will end up with same sex attractions: child abuse, molestation, absent or unloving same-sex parent, bullying by other kids.

    My dad was always into sports, hunting, & fishing. I had no interest in that – I wanted to read. I was the only boy in my family, was picked on from an early age by my male cousins, and then by other boys at school. I hung around with the girls, for that is who I was used to, and felt safer around. I remember around the age of 8-9 my mom telling me that my dad felt I was too old for him to hug and/or kiss anymore. I was devastated. I watched for years as he did so with my younger sisters, never understanding why, and feeling he didn’t approve of me nor love me. I received one hug from him from that time – when I graduated and the parents came through the receiving line. I have seen men hug their teenage or older sons and felt so envious. Side note, getting 3 nephews in the last 8 years who will let me hug and kiss them has given some healing in that area.

    I went onto Bible College, and was again targeted for being picked on. Looking back at those, and my school years, I have to wonder if I had stood up for myself, bloodied some noses, if things would be different, but we can never know that. And I’d like to make the point that I was never effeminate, or a “sissy”. I just wasn’t into sports, nor was good at them, and since I wasn’t, became a target.

    The father issue: I see now that my dad did love me, still struggle with the approval part, but some guys just can’t show it. Good song about that at this website, though it will be replaced with another shortly: http://www.hvministry.com. A boy who has no positive male role model in his life, and/or feels the one he has doesn’t love him or approve of him, is going to seek it from other men. Where, how, and when that can turn to same-sex attractions, I don’t know for sure, but it can, and often does. Most gay males do not have a loving relationship with their father – there are exceptions, but a large percentage do not.

    As for peers, somewhere along the line I, and other boys, start viewing other boys as different from me. Just as girls admire their muscles, etc, so does a boy who is feeling alienated and different from other boys. That admiration and envy soon turns into desire for other boys. And this doesn’t always happen – depends on the other circumstances in his life. If he has a father who outwardly shows affection, this may not affect him negatively. So, I really don’t believe I had a choice in feeling same sex attraction. We can not live our lives thinking “what if”, but choices I made may have led me different if I had chosen differently – tried harder to excel at sports, fought back when boys bullied me, but overall, several things combined led me to develop same sex attractions. And in some boys, it may not have done so, but in my makeup and personality, it did.

    Acceptance. We do need to accept people as a person, love them, befriend them, but not their sin. If your friend is a promiscuous heterosexual, you will still be their friend, but are not going to approve of their sinful lifestyle. If your friend is openly gay, the same applies. If he is your friend, he isn’t going to shove it down your throat, and at the same time, you can be his friend, not approve of his sinful lifestyle, and pray for him without badgering him.

    To open our arms to the lifestyle and not call it sin, is damning people to hell. Our tolerance/acceptance of them as a person, should never be replaced with acceptance of the sin. Might be a fine line, but as Christians, we are to be salt, and we cannot be salt if we smile at sin, and let people believe it is ok, and the Bible clearly states sex between 2 of the same sex is sin.

    If you are friends with an openly gay person, that isn’t someone you want for a role model for your child – not because he is a bad person – I can relate to that – but because you don’t want your kids thinking the lifestyle is ok. It isn’t. But neither do you want them to have a heterosexual role model who has no respect for sexual purity and marriage.

    There is too much homophobia today in the church. People equate homosexuality with child molestation, and some gay men do that, but far more heterosexual men are guilty of it. When I was hanging around in chat rooms, there were always a couple of teenage boys, sometimes as young as 13, and I am sure there was always someone who would go for them, but that is not the norm. Gay men are attracted to other men, not boys.

    My Sunday School class had a month on social issues a few months ago. One Sunday, we covered the issue of gay marriage, which I am against. I was fighting tears throughout the class because of some of the comments. “Perverts” was said a few times, a couple of guys said they wouldn’t want those kind of people around their kids, one said he would rather have his kids be around a prostitute.

    I had made some comments about gay marriage – I am against it – and after church, the leader thanked me for my comments, then said something to this effect “its just like child molesters and rapists – I wouldn’t want my boys around those kind of people”. This was a guy I call a friend, and I had told of my struggles a few years ago. At the time, he said he knew other guys that had dealt with it, and if I ever needed to talk, he was there. I am guessing he forgot, since I never took him up on his offer. But no wonder we have boys and men in our churches suffering in silence today.

    I go to a fairly small church by some standards – runs 220-250, so everyone knows everybody else pretty well. There are a handful of guys who know of my struggle. I moved away for a couple of years, and am now back, and none of those guys have asked how I am doing, not even my pastor. I may be guilty of expecting too much, but the church also needs to do more in extending a hand to guys who are struggling with this issue. If we were more open to discussing it – still calling it sin, but dealing with the issue in a more loving way, I think more of our boys and men would come forward for help, instead of struggling in silence, and all too often exploring their sexuality. You might be amazed at how many men and young men (over 18) that I have run into who attend church regularly, but deal with this issue, and some of them are exploring it, and many of them are married.

    I don’t have all the answers in this area. We do need to love more, and reach out more to homosexuals, but yet, we cannot let them take over the country to the point we cannot say it is a sin, etc. If you followed the proposition 8 ordeal in CA, you can see they are capable of the very hate and intolerance they say that we are.

    Hope this helps and answers some questions. Again, I am sorry for the length – I outdid any woman!

  66. Stuggler,

    Don’t apologize for the length of your comment. It is so helpful to have a “struggler” be so open and truthful about this often misundertood subject. I’m so very thankful for your willingness to face truth and do the hard things. THANK YOU.

  67. Hi Struggler……thank you for entrusting any of us readers here with a piece of your experience and life. I REALLY appreciate that..really!

    I dont have much time now, but am open to learning more. Sadly, I feel if we were talking right across from each other, so much wouldnt be lost in conversation…..be back tomorrow.

  68. Struggler, God bless you. You have come a long way. God loves you. Thank you for your truthfulness to God’s Word and your honesty. It is not your fault that you were picked on, or that you didn’t want to do sports. Years ago, men could enjoy many other things besides sports, but not today. There is much more conformity today and if you don’t fit that norm (the sports jock) you get picked on, and that isn’t right.

    What matters is that you righted yourself with God’s help.

  69. Struggler

    You are certainly gracious to share your experience with us.

    Thank you for voicing the need for God’s people to have BOTH compassion and Truth.

    Love for the lost does mean that we need to actually care about them rather than simply condemn sinful tendencies.

    Heather

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