What Guys Think About Modesty

68 Responses to “What Guys Think About Modesty”

  1. Kelly L says:

    Great video! I do believe we women can play apart in encouraging sin in men (Just as we can listening to each other talk about our husbands and commenting inappropriately). However, I will tell anyone that sometimes, there is nothing I do, and I still see the lust in men’s eyes. I have been out in non-tight sweats and a long sleeve t-shirt. Even my feet were covered! I still received inappropriate stares and even attempts at flirtation.

    I do try my hardest to dress appropriately, in a way that most honors God. I wish men would try their hardest at living holy and not use women as a crutch for their own hearts. Saying this, I really believe we can cause a man to stumble by the way we dress or act. (Out in everyday life, I barely even look at men and smile anymore because it seems to be an open invitation to them).

    • Abby says:

      Kelly L.: get over yourself.
      (Out in everyday life, I barely even look at men and smile anymore because it seems to be an open invitation to them)
      Seriously? Way to show Christ’s love.

      • Jennifer says:

        Geez Abby, chill. Kelly’s speaking of her own experience, and she’s never behaved as one who’s naturally suspicious of men.

      • Kelly L says:

        Abby,
        As someone who doesn’t know me, I guess you could draw that conclusion. Because you don’t know me, you don’t know the creepy things that have happened because I appeared interested as a result of a smile or small conversation in line. I forgive you for jumping to false conclusions of me.

        I am open to letting God use this attention for good. I have talked to a table full of men and given gospel tracks and preached to them after a lunch of staring. I have witnessed to people visiting our city on The Strip. And other things, but this is not resume’ time. But I only do these things as the Lord leads. To think that every attention like that should lead to witnessing is not only foolish, but also dangerous to me and my daughter.

        The Bible is not outspoken in this subject directly. So I trust you to do as the Lord leads you to do. I will continue doing as the Lord leads me.

  2. Renee says:

    Great video, thanks for sharing

  3. Ms. Stevenson says:

    This is a great topic as I often wonder if we should change chuches due to this currently. Although no church is perfect, (as my pastor says “when you walk in it becomes imperfect”) I would love to see ladies and gentlemen dressed modestly. Currently todays fashion is the norm for both, even in the youth groups. I dress modestly and wear a headcovering during worship. I did get many odd looks on that which surprised me. I think modesty begins in the heart. When the heart changes so does the outward appearance. Im not sure how to tackle this where we currently worship but any ideas are greatly appreciated! Kelly, I was wondering on your thoughts on headcovering during worship too.

    Hoping this post finds you in good spirits hang in there the baby will be here soon! Hugs!

  4. Kat says:

    Modesty is such a tough issue because how do we decide what is modest. What is modest to me may not be modest to you. I usually wear knee length A-line skirts with a blouse and ballet flats. I think I’m being modest but men still lear at me. I think what I’m wearing is quite reasonable. It’s one thing when women are clearly dressing for attention but when a woman is reasonably dressed men need to take responsibility for their thoughts.

    • Kelly L says:

      I agree, Kat! I think because a majority of women dress in away that presents their bodies as if they were for public consumption, it causes a mindset that we all are, regardless of how we are dressed! I do believe we should do our part for God’s glory, but men must realize it is possible to live a life of holiness despite their surroundings!

      Paul admonished the early church on such things as this, as many were living in overtly pagan situation. Despite what was going on they were told to be Holy, just as God is!

      • Kat says:

        I teach at a local university and would say maybe a quarter of women dress provocatively, a quarter dress professionally and the other half look like they rolled out of bed 5 minutes ago and came to class. This is all based on my personal experience only, so who knows. It does make me wonder how the men in this video define modesty though.

  5. Ashley Brubaker says:

    Wow, this is a powerful message! I will be Bookmarking this, and sharing when an opportunity presents itself. Thanks for sharing, Kelly!

  6. Rebekah says:

    We have noticed this is a great problem in the church. My hubby and I have a VERY open relationship and he comes to me often and asks if I noticed the women that there were women dressed seductively at church. He wishes he didn’t have to mind his eyes so much when he is trying to worship G-d.
    My problem is that is SEEMS to me that pastors have a blind eye to it and are afraid to make a statement in case he offends someone. This also is were the Titus 2 women should come into play but we are losing those roles in the church.
    I am not talking about women having to wear ankle length skirts or anything like that. I am talking about women looking like they are going out on a night on the town at church with cleavage showing and short, tight skirts on. I am from the west coast and because of the weather (and culture) it is more of a problem. Unfortunately I was one of those women before I new any better. 🙁

  7. Jane says:

    Does anyone feel like this puts all of the pressure on the girls? If the guys are having such a hard time, maybe they should work on that personally rather than saying that girls need to make all of the changes to deal with the guys problems. I agree that girls should dress modestly and neatly, but they should do that so that they can be taken seriously and look as though they respect themselves. Personally, at the university I attend, I always try to dress modestly and professionally so that I can be taken seriously as a student and an intellectual, not because I feel like it is my job to keep men from having lustful thoughts.

  8. Cathy says:

    If you are a woman that dresses modestly, then this isn’t an issue for you. But that doesn’t take away from what this pastor is trying to teach. When we used to attend traditional church, there were always ladies and teenage girls that dressed very worldly. It was very hard on my husband. He would always have to look at the ground at church!!

    Now today I have a 13ds and 11ds (I also have 4 dd), we were out hiking on the trails. And what happens to cross our path… a girl/yound adult and a very small bikini top on and a piersed belly button. My oldest son was tempted by that and will now have to contend with that immage in his mind (at just 13).

    I don’t know why we start defending ourselves with issues like this. The truth is…. there IS a problem in this area. It doesn’t mean that the men do not have a responsability to this, but thats not what this topic is about. Its dealing with us… the women…!! I shouldn’t point our finger and say..”They aren’t doing their part”.. and some men will lust no matter what we wear… but again.. thats not the point of this topic. Its about those women who dress immodesty and don’t consider or don’t care how it will effect their brothers in Christ..

    I can only pray that things will change, but we do live in a fallen world and the Lord will return some day. What will HE find when HE comes??

    Blessings,
    Cathy

  9. Sarai says:

    My husband watched this video and commented on the idea that over-emphasizing modesty can in fact lead to more problems by over-sexualizing every part of a woman’s body. Take, for instance, parts of the world where even a woman’s hair or her elbow or ankle might be considered extremely “sexual” or tempting because her society insists that she cover up to the extreme.

    I think this video also portrays men very negatively. I was raised with this idea, reading lots of Christian courtship books which portrayed men as sort of sexual animals, possessing these insatiable drives. I was so relieved to find a husband who is normal and finds those depictions of men equally absurd. He also comments that he thinks these depictions of males allows men in the church to blame women for their deviant problems and to almost spiritualize such behavior.

    All of this is just to say that I think this issue needs to be approached very thoughtfully and sensitively. A woman may dress impeccably and still be subject to a man’s lust (or vice versa, for that matter), and the lust is not her problem or her fault. Women shouldn’t be afraid to look a man in the eye or to walk down the street (as some earlier posters mentioned) or we are in the process of creating our own special brand of the Taliban.

    • Sara says:

      Good points! I agree.

    • Kelly L says:

      I agree. And I was the one saying I won’t usually look a man in the eye. I am not doing it because I am afraid. I am not doing it because it seems to encourage them that I am interested in flirting. Also, my daughter who is 11, but is 5’6″ and looks 15 also notices it. I am trying to be an example to her, too. A lot of women feel empowered by controlling men’s eyes like this. (I know, I was one of them as a non-Christian and even as a baby Christian.) I am trying to show her an appropriate reaction…I am not saying I do this at all times, or that this should be what everyone else does, just what I often feel led to do.

      I have talked to my hubby about this, too. And he has said that men do try to get eye contact as some wort of power. BTW, he is a man who lives holy and struggles occasionally. But he knows it is his own heart that may cause him to sin. He was the one who thought men were just this way. That is, until Christ took ahold of his heart. He tries to live daily without sin.

  10. Julia K. says:

    Men’s lust is mainly an issue for lustful men and only peripherally for women; just as kleptomania is mainly an issue for thieves and only peripherally for retailers. However, those of us in Christ are all interdependent and no one is responsible merely for him/herself. A Christian retailer, knowing that his customers included a significant number of Christians who struggled with kleptomania, might thus be justified in placing all merchandise behind glass even if it drove away other customers and made his profit margins fall. More important, though, would be making sure the church promulgated truths about contentment, sharing, and the nature of material possessions. Both of these measures could be taken at the same time if necessary.

    To take another analogy from Paul, we should not lead people with weak consciences astray by eating meat sacrificed to idols, so it is best to abstain when around such weak individuals until they are enlightened. But there is nothing inherently wrong with eating that meat, and we work to bring about a Christian culture that quickly but sensitively educates people in the truth so they don’t have to suffer such ignorance for long.

    In both analogies, the innocent party does well to help forestall sin by avoiding being a temptation, but the church as a whole does the more central work by leading the other person out of sin through teaching that exhorts him to the renewal of his mind and the conversion of his heart. And ultimately, it is the sinner himself who must change.

    So. I take a bit of care to not tempt my acquaintances who I suspect might have issues with feeling predatory. If I know I’m going to be around them a lot, I avoid wearing revealing, tight, feminine, or dressy clothing; and I avoid pursuing friendly conversation with them, which is the biggest turn-on of all. That way they are not as tempted to obsess over me. When I am instead around mature people, I can wear normal clothes and talk in normal ways.

    Now, my opinion is only as weighty as that of the author in the video, but I do not think that such extreme inability to interact with people because of constantly thinking about sex is the norm.

    One unintended consequence of glassed-in shelving is that, if it is seen as the cure itself and not accompanied by sound spiritual work on the part of the kleptomaniacs, it might make them even more tempted to steal from stores that don’t have glass – since they are relatively unguarded, just “asking for it.” However, this is not an indictment of glassed-in shelving (or modest clothing), just a reminder that it doesn’t directly address the heart problem. Men who are used to seeing women wear more modest clothing might be in danger of objectifying, scorning, and lusting after women who wear less modest clothing more desperately than those who are used to seeing women who wear less modest clothing. This paradox shows how hard it is to prevent other people from sinning; human fallenness always seems to find a way.

    Moreover, taking the initiative toward modesty is complicated because attractiveness is culturally relative. If 3/4 of American women suddenly started to cover their faces or their ankles, the other 1/4 would start to worry, probably correctly, that the sight of their faces or their ankles was driving men to distraction. Allure and temptation also differ by individual preference. For some men, pants on a woman are sexually meaningful because they point to the crotch. For other (I would guess more) men, skirts and dresses on a woman are sexually meaningful, because they accentuate that distinctly and exotically feminine attribute, hips. There’s no sure-fire way to avoid having sexual meaning read into one’s clothes.

    In essence:
    1. It is difficult to dress in a way that actually presents less temptation for everyone than the norm. Success is not guaranteed.
    2. In certain situations, it is probably worth trying anyway, such as around specific people whose triggers you know and can avoid.
    3. Modest dress is not without its own drawbacks, and is a stopgap measure, like not eating meat sacrificed to idols or like putting glass on store shelves.
    4. Modest dress is a tertiary way of addressing lust, and should not be focused on at the expense of teaching about and conforming to godly thoughts about the body as so much more than a sexual object: created good by God, His chosen form for incarnation, the temple of the Holy Spirit, and destined to be glorified in Heaven.

  11. Daisy says:

    I dress very modest. I often wear flats, skirts with leggings, button up sweater. Or a dress with leggings and a nice jacket with mini heels. No pumps. Barely any legs are showing, neither are my chest and arms! I still have men gawking at me as well. It’s annoying but it does happen. Our society and majority of men will view women as objects as long as the media condones it or accepts it by showing half naked women on t.v.

    • Julia K. says:

      “Our society and majority of men will view women as objects as long as the media condones it or accepts it by showing half naked women on t.v.”

      More crucially for the mission of Christianity, our society and the majority of men will view women as objects as long as they do not have the light of Christ to direct them toward a proper understanding of women as equally indwelt beings, not simply objects defined by their sexual relation to men.

  12. Tonya says:

    Real modesty is dressing and acting in a way that makes God look good and gives Him the attention we are often wanting for ourselves. It’s having a heart that wants to glorify God (shine the spotlight on Him) in absolutely everything.

    You can’t alleviate all lust coming your direction, as some of you seem to think, by wearing sloppy clothes. There are men out there who are NOT fighting lust. They enjoy it. They’ll lust over a woman in a burka. This video is talking about guys who are trying to honor God in their thought life all the time and wish to have some unhamper eye space in church especially.

    Here’s a great article from Pyromaniacs on the same subject. I saw this years ago and never forgot it.

    http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2006/05/sister-show-mercy.html

  13. Mrs W says:

    I always find it suspicious when a man starts to go on and on about modesty in women, like the man wants to blame women for his dirty thoughts so that he does not have to change.

    I am one that dresses in skirts longer than knee length only, no pants etc. I do wear skirts that are up to date and being sold in stores now, not frumpy skirts that would just bring attention to myself.

    However, no man who goes on and on about modesty in women has my respect at all. The truth is that HE alone is responsible for his thoughts. If he’s walking in the spirit (which he is supposed to be), the spirit will be guiding him, making sure that he doesn’t take that second look. Also, if we would just stop telling our sons that every little thing is sexual, they would stop thinking that way. I know a lot of conservative people with dirtier minds than worldly people because they believe that everything is sexual when it is not.

    Really I think it is just part of the subtle plot to denigrate women and tell us we are trash over everything we do. As women, it is our responsibility to dress modestly (and if we are walking in the spirit, the spirit is able to tell us what is modest without some guy doing it for us).

    My main point is, why don’t we quit meddling in other people’s lives, especially blaming the other gender for things that are our own fault (like men blaming womens immodesty for their dirty minds) and rely on the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives? Conservative Christianity gives lip service to the Holy Spirit, and that is all. They don’t really believe in Him or His power to change people. They’d rather try and mold people into their own image instead of letting the Holy Spirit mold them into God’s image.

    • Susan says:

      Wow! You really spoke the truth! Everyone needs to read your post and seriously think about what you said. So true.

    • Jennifer says:

      Naturally, it is important that women dress in a way that’s modest, like you said; men struggle with that far more than I imagined. But, your other points are absolutely right-on: I too get tired of hearing men/boys rail about this! And some indeed do it far too much; I couldn’t believe the questions/responses to the survey the Harris brothers passed out, asking, “Do you feel snagged when a girl in pants sits cross-legged?” Who are they to dictate that girls don’t sit that way? What a ludicrous thing to make a fuss of. Every point you made is excellent.

      • Mrs W says:

        Girls sitting cross legged in pants was normal when I went to school, and was not seen as sexual in any way, on in any way even a stumbling block. I think that conservative Christianity has gone too far trying to remove “stumbling blocks” that they have created them because if they had never brought attention to those things in the first place, they never would have been stumbling blocks. And I think some men and boys also create “stumbling blocks” to manipulate women into wearing what they prefer them to wear.

    • Lori H says:

      YES YES YES! The gentleman who presented this talk (it can hardly be called a “sermon,” given the lack of Scripture) is named C.J. Mahaney. He is an avowed Calvinist. Now don’t get me wrong. Both Calvinism and Arminianism have their shortcomings. However, if I may point out the obvious, one of the major shortcomings I have seen in our Calvinist brothers and sisters (particularly the brothers) is a lack of accountability for one’s own sin and a lack of true commitment to holiness. There is this idea that because God chooses whom to save, there is no need to live righteous or worthy or holy lives unto God…that if we sin, God has already forgiven us…that if we give into temptation, the fault is the tempter’s (even if she had no idea), and not our own.

      Note: This is, of course, a perversion of real Calvinism, which seems at least to teach that a person’s continuing in sin may indicate that he is not of the elect, and that there is a call to holiness on an elect person’s life (see, e.g., Jonathan Edwards generally).

      The truth, y’all, is that we are accountable for our own sin. The truth is that we are ALWAYS responsible for it. The truth is that no matter what is dangled in front of us, God always provides a way for us to stand up under it (1 Corinthians 10:13), and if we don’t choose that way out, then we have done wrong and sinned against God, and that is OUR fault.

      Do I, as a Christian woman, need to dress modestly? Absolutely. It is the command of Scripture, both for my own edification and for the protection of my brothers and sisters in Christ who may find my dress sexually arousing (and please, don’t be so naive as to think that there are no women in your congregation who struggle with same sex attraction for one reason or another).

      But is it my fault when my physical appearance sexually arouses a man? Absolutely not. Granted, this is unlikely, given my penchant for modest dress, but some women are shaped in such a way that only wearing a ginormous shapeless paper sack would restrain some men from salivating.

      And then there’s the unpredictable. All men do not have the same sexual stimuli. My husband finds skirts to be more sexually attractive than pants because they are feminine. Another male friend admits to struggling with the way a woman’s hair brushes across her shoulders. Another becomes tempted when a woman licks her lips. In some sects of Judaism, women are not allowed to sing in front of men, for fear their voices will be sexually enticing.

      Men are sexually attracted to women. That’s the way God designed it. Although we should do our best to dress in a way that is not obviously provocative, they, and they alone, are responsible when they are “dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed” (James 1:14).

      I agree that the Holy Spirit is key here. Living a life worthy of the call is such an important part of being a child of God.

      “Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: ‘Be holy, because I am holy.'” 1 Peter 1:13-16

      Whether you are a Calvinist, an Arminian, or a universalist, the Biblical call to holiness is unmistakable and clear. Blame-shifting gets in the way of true repentance and change. There are very few real Christians in the world, and the feast of flesh will always be massive. Let men, rather than blaming women, make a covenant with their eyes not to look lustfully at women (Job 31:1). Let us in turn, as sisters, dress appropriately, but not be accused of causing the sins of others in which we are not participants and of which we are generally ignorant. As noted by others, a man with a lustful, unredeemed heart whose spirit is not in tune with God’s Spirit could find someone to lust after in a room of women in paper sacks.

  14. Missy says:

    We as women do have a responsibility to dress modestly. Lust is EVERY mans battle. I don’t think they were trying to put the blame on women, they talked about praying, reciting scripture, etc to keep his mind pure so he IS doing his part. In love, we should not cause our brother to stumble. I prefer not to go to Bible study or church and see cleavage. I have found that when a woman shows cleavage, she usually reveals more than she is aware of, like when she bends over to get her Bible. God made women beautiful, there is no need for us to flaunt what he has given us. The question is: What is our responsibility? It’s to love. Is dressing provocatively loving? I say no!

    • Mrs W says:

      Problem is, as you can see in these comments, is a lot of women do dress modestly and yet men are still obsessed with telling us to do it. If we are walking in the spirit, we’ll have the fruits of the spirit which the first one is love, and we’ll be dressed appropriately. If the men are walking in the spirit they’ll have the fruit of the spirit too and therefore have the self-control to not lust.

      It’s all about the Holy Spirit and nothing about us. The men should be concentrating on encouraging other men to walk in the spirit instead of lecturing women on modesty.

    • Ginger says:

      Very well said, Missy.

      • Sonya Kramm says:

        It is sad to hear so many of people in this post responding in an attitude of bitterness and blame. If we are walking in the Spirit we would seek, as Romans 14 tells us, to do all that we can to help anyone who is struggling. If I can do that by not dressing in a way to attract attention to my body then I will, for the sake of any brother. My outfit is such a small thing to change so that I can help my fellow believers be holy. Who are we trying to serve, ourselves or others.

        • Mrs W says:

          I dress modestly. In fact I’m skirts/dresses only, and only those loose fitting and below knee length. I don’t show any cleavage in my tops etc. However, the reason I dress modestly has nothing to do with other men and what they might struggle with. I’m sorry if that’s not good enough for you. But it certainly doesn’t make me bitter or angry. It just means that I’m responsible for my actions and men are responsible for theirs, whether women are dressed appropriately or not. It’s called PERSONAL responsibility.

          The reason that I dress modestly is simply because the Bible commands it. However, apart from a couple of guidelines, the Bible isn’t exactly clear on what constitutes modesty, and that is where we have to trust on the Holy Spirit to guide us, and to guide other women.

        • Jennifer says:

          Once again, the assumption is that the women who show any dissent are not modest, or unwilling to help men. Give me a break, Sonya.

  15. Valerie says:

    I am kind of sad about the comments to this post. It seems as if no one actually even heard what the men where actually saying at all. It seems as if defenses rose up before they could even finish listening to the message.
    Some seem to keep shouting, “The men are the ones who are dirty, they are just trying to control us by ‘asking for help’ when it comes to our clothes. They are the issue, not us! They even goggle at us when we are in sweats!”.
    The men in the video, and most men who have broached this subject in churches before, DID NOT blame women. They took full responsibility for their battle (which they mentioned many times). They saw however how the less clothes women wore,the more seductive clothes they wore, and how much skin they saw, the harder the battle was for them. They simply asked for help. Did they ever call these women whores? Did they suggest a specific clothing item of their choice?? NO. They simply asked that women adhere to the Word of God and dress modestly. Who cares that we do not know what they meant by modesty? We can use common sense. We know what short skirts, skin tight jeans, low cut tops that reveal our breasts do? Do we not? We can make wise choices. It is not hard and they ARE NOT asking too much. This has nothing to do with burkas, or womens slavery, or covering hair. To make the issue about that is to use extremes and not common sense.
    Don’t like men asking you favors? Fine, how about God?
    “likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control…” (1Tim 2:9)
    They are only asking exactly as the apostles said. That women wear respectable apparel that is modest. Why is that so hard for women in America? We HATE being told what to wear. That’s why. I know I used to. I also used to be part of the problem with my immodest dress. But when God revealed to me my motives, why I wore these things, and WHAT it did to the men I knew, I KNEW it had to stop.
    If you do not have a problem with modesty, then you had no need to comment about how you dress sooooo modestly and yet evil men still look at you. Yes, men are evil. SO ARE WOMEN. We all are. Some men want to control their lusts. Some men don’t. Some men have lust issues sooo out of control that that’s all they ever think about. Which is why they can lust at a woman in sweats. But why not pick something that covers your whole breasts? Why not pick a longer shirt to cover your bottom if you feel you have to wear tighter jeans? WHY NOT wear a longer skirt if it will help you brothers in Christ? Not to mention set a good example to those young women in your life who are being told everyday they need to dress in a sexual way. You and I can do all those things and more. We can do it in freedom and with out becoming slaves.
    “If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.” (1 Cor.12:26)
    Lets honor the body of Christ 🙂 Let’s help if there is something in our power to do so.

    • Jennifer says:

      I think you are incorrect in yout assertions. The ladies here are very conservative and aware of how they dress and affect others; they are not “defensive” women. The responses here have presented a lot of truth too and many women have received too much pressure; both the dissenting comments and the agreeing ones have good points, and NO ONE has claimed that modesty is unimportant, so I don’t see your critique as necessary. For you to interpret their words as turning this into something involving burkhas is not a sensible move, and Mrs. W’s main point about the actual dirtiness of minds sexualizing everything is spot-on.

      “Who cares that we do not know what they meant by modesty?”

      Actually, that’s very important.

      “Don’t like men asking you favors? Fine, how about God?”

      You sound very defensive with those words. Some women have been hounded with such messages all their lives.

      “If you do not have a problem with modesty, then you had no need to comment about how you dress sooooo modestly and yet evil men still look at you”

      I don’t find this in the least accurate.

      “But why not pick something that covers your whole breasts? Why not pick a longer shirt to cover your bottom if you feel you have to wear tighter jeans? WHY NOT wear a longer skirt if it will help you brothers in Christ?”

      How many women here do you think actually dress like that, or don’t know how to dress?

      • Valerie says:

        Jennifer, I am sorry if my response sounded defensive. I guess in a way…I was. It’s hard to bring this topic up, and then when men or women in the church do, they are constantly told no one should speak on this subject.
        If I may address some things you have laid against me,

        “For you to interpret their words as turning this into something involving burkhas is not a sensible move, ”

        I am not sure if you read the comments of others. If you did not,
        I brought up Burkas Jennifer because another woman Tonya had brought that up.
        Secondly, another woman Sarai said we could be creating our own form of the Taliban.

        Also Jennifer to answer your questions or comments,
        you quoted me and then asked….
        ““Don’t like men asking you favors? Fine, how about God?”

        You sound very defensive with those words. Some women have been hounded with such messages all their lives.”

        What message were they hounded with all their lives? The message to obey the bible? Or to obey men’s standard of modesty? If the message was to obey the bibles call to modesty, then I feel no pity but only joy for them. If you can present to me a time or experience in which modesty became abusive to some of these women, please let me know, because I have not heard of it.

        Also you quoted me here and asked…
        “But why not pick something that covers your whole breasts? Why not pick a longer shirt to cover your bottom if you feel you have to wear tighter jeans? WHY NOT wear a longer skirt if it will help you brothers in Christ?”

        How many women here do you think actually dress like that, or don’t know how to dress?”

        I have never met any of these women so I cannot say with any certainty how they dress. To assume so would be silly. I was making a very simple statement about modesty, which it seems a lot of women were asking about.

        I think we cannot get away from the fact that we live in and raise a very woman based sexual culture. We are surrounded and inundated with sexual clothing and images. This is not sold just in Victorias secret, but sold in walmart, target,JC Penny’s and almost every store elsewhere. MOST of our society’s women dress in the norm of our culture. The church used to have a purpose of being in the culture but not “of” it. We used to shine like a city on a hill because it was the light of Christ that shined through us, not our freshly tanned skin. I feel we have lost that as we seem to look and talk and act more and more like the world everyday. This is scary to some. These men have been honest in how this has not helped their battles. I find no wrong in that at all.
        So if you are asking me if I believe there are women in churches who wear short skirts, skin tight clothing, and breast revealing shirts,then the answer is, absolutely. Those clothing choices have been in every church I have ever been to. And if you are honest, they are in your churches too. I used to make those choices as well. It saddens me that I ever did. But it saddens me more that women would rather defend their rights to woven pieces of cloth than to defend their brothers in Christ.

        • Jennifer says:

          I understand your concern Valerie, and I sounded more defensive than I needed to as well. But in as much as I’ve seen immodesty (in ludicrous amounts), I’ve also seen overbearing Christians shame others unnecessarily; there are those who have claimed pants were immodest, and in a survey I mentioned earlier, boys were asked about standards in dress they found offensive and some of the questions were downright ridiculous, like “do you feel attacked [or attracted, or something] when a girl raises her arms in a short-sleeved shirt” or something like that. The survey was meant to cover all areas of possible discomfort for boys, but some of the lengths it went to were ridiculous. Some people are too fearful and sexualize too much, instilling this same attitude in their children, and I find it more distasteful for men to go on about this than for women to advise other women.

          I did not see Tonya’s comment, but I did see the Taliban one and some strict sects (not just cults like the polygamous Mormons, but less severe sects) go way too far in dictating what to wear.

        • Cathy says:

          Valerie… I just wanted to let you know that I completely agreed with your post.

          Amen…

  16. 6 arrows says:

    Excellent, Valerie!

    And I would add James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

    • Jennifer says:

      Judging from my experience with Kelly’s readers, arrows, they’re full-grown ladies very aware of how to dress and what to avoid. Again, this sort of admonition is unnecessary for them.

      • SavedbyGrace says:

        Jennifer, I just don’t see that this admonition isn’t necessary for any of us. None of us is perfect. We all need to consistently be reminded to remember that we serve a holy God and a God who bought us and we no longer belong to ourselves. If we truly love Christ we will obey him and if we truly love Christ we will behave/dress in such a way as to bring Him honor and no shame because He does care how we women dress just as He cares about every other little detail of our lives.

        BTW, Hi Jennifer! I’m in and out a lot lately. Much love.

  17. Sarah says:

    That was great! I think we as women, even Christian women, do need to have our attention drawn to the fact that guys are just wired differently than we are and that we do most certainly have a responsibility as Christian sisters to be modest for their sakes. As the dress of the culture around us gets more and more ungodly, we need to make sure we’re not blindly following in the same paths. Praise God for men like the one in this video who are fighting their sinful natures and not just giving in.

  18. Blair says:

    I’m gonna ask a potentially taboo question but I feel this is the right place. How important is modesty at home? For a mother and daughter around her sons/brothers? Are too short shorts ok to clean house in? How can I teach this to my daughter without making her feel objectified by her own brothers?

  19. Sara says:

    I’ve talked about this extensively with my husband. And he used to struggle with lust quite a bit.
    Everything seemed to be a trigger and it was really discouraging to me.
    However, once he started getting help, praying, and letting the Holy Spirit work in him, he developed discipline, and the amazing things is, all those things that USED to be triggers, aren’t so much anymore.

    Not to say he is immune to temptation. What I’m saying is, once he was able to overcome temptation and not give in, he DID stop sexualizing every little thing. Gradually, those things lost their hold. I think to myself maybe it’s like when you go on a diet and stop drinking soda, and then one day you realize you don’t actually want any soda anymore.
    Yesterday I made a comment after church, that I didn’t appreciate how one of the guests was dressed and his reply was, “I didn’t even notice.”

    Women need to dress modestly, period. But men need to take responsibility and develop the self discipline they need regardless of what they see around them. If they don’t, it won’t matter what women wear, just being a woman will be the temptation. (And I know this has all been said already 🙂 (Sorry to be redundant)

    • Kelly L says:

      Sara,
      My husband was in the same boat, which was why I made my comments. I think it is important for men and women Christians to remember that a sinful thought and action should be abnormal. When those thoughts and ideas come to our heads/hearts, they should be repugnant. Of course, as we are not the Christ, we won’t be able to be sin-free our entire lives, but we should strive for days and even weeks of it. Sin should be the abnormal, not normal. It is very possible for us to live Holy, sanctified and pure lives only stumbling into sin, not jumping in because that is ‘just how we are.’ It is possible because that is what God told us to do.

      • Sara says:

        I’ve appreciated your comments, Kelly L. I didn’t really have anything to add to the conversation other than my own experience, which was seven years of constantly trying to control surroundings. But as others have pointed out, that’s just a stop gap measure, not the solution, and in our case, maybe not even a very helpful one.
        Yes, Christian women should not be dressing inappropriately no matter where they are, but there will always be women out there who let it all hang out.
        Trying to prevent my husband from seeing anything that might be a trigger was 1. a mission doomed to failure and 2. a hindrance to him realizing that it wasn’t the world’s fault. The sin was in his own heart, and he needed Christ to overcome it. Even a blind man can lust, and you’re right–only Christ can free us from sin.

  20. Anna says:

    I was hoping to read more male responses…

    • Mrs W says:

      Not me. I suspect that the men that are the most “worried” and most vocal about modesty in women are the biggest perverts. Why else would they spend so much time on the subject? We need to worry about the fact that these perverts are trying to teach anyone anything.

      • Sara says:

        You’ve had some really great points, Mrs. W. I’ve appreciated the balance you’ve given to the conversation. I don’t think it’s fair though to say that a guy who is vocal about modesty is probably a pervert.
        Every normal guy struggles with lust to some degree. Some more than others. Since we women find it hard to see their point of view, it’s shameful for most men to even admit to the problem. Shaming them more by saying that if they talk about modesty they might be a pervert is not helpful.
        Sin thrives in darkness. I think the church needs to talk about these issues more openly than they do. Sexual sin AND modesty. Labeling any topic as off limits will just convince men that they are better off in the dark lest their wives and sisters in Christ think that they are perverted.

        • Sara says:

          I do agree, though, that it should mostly be women teaching women about modesty. Unfortunately, in a lot of churches the older ladies don’t take the initiative and younger women are never even taught the effect that their bodies and dress can have on men. I know no one ever told me.
          My husband had to tell me. If men are stepping in and doing that job, it’s probably because women haven’t been doing their job in teaching the younger ones.

        • Mrs W says:

          Sara, if it’s ok for a random man to teach me about modesty, then surely it must be ok for me to teach random man about how to run his house, right? Oh, it only works one way, doesn’t it? The man can try to boss around any female he pleases just because he’s male.

          • Sara says:

            I don’t think it’s okay for a “random man” to walk up to a random woman to instruct her about modesty. That’s not at all what I was implying. I’m sorry if this has happened to you and caused some hurt.
            But it *is* okay, and in fact Biblical for Christian teachers and leaders (which, according to Scripture, will be mostly male) to talk about the issue and instruct the body.
            Elders and leaders may be led to speak about other passages in Scripture that apply to women as well. Do you really feel comfortable saying such a teaching is most likely not Spirit led b/c he’s a male? It is not just okay, but necessary for husbands and fathers to address this issue.
            Women are to teach women, but men have been given greater authority in the church to instruct the entire body. Women should be teaching women about the home, motherhood, modesty, etc. That’s commanded in Titus, but that doesn’t mean that men are excluded from preaching on those topics. In fact, there may come a time when it is necessary for them to. Maybe like now, when a lot of women have lost their way, and there isn’t many left who can or will teach the younger generation.
            Also, if we refuse to listen to Biblical instruction simply because a male is telling us something that isn’t in his “domain”, we should probably examine our hearts for rebellion.

            • Jennifer says:

              “Biblical for Christian teachers and leaders (which, according to Scripture, will be mostly male)”

              No, not really.

              Great points, Mrs. W.

              • Sara says:

                Sorry, Jennifer. But we’ll have to disagree. In the leadership roles in the church (teaching from the pulpit, elders, deacons), I take the more conservative view that these roles are meant for men. Not to say I don’t think women can teach. They are meant to teach other women. I love Beth Moore.
                “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. ”
                This is a hard passage of Scripture and honestly, it makes me uncomfortable. But I can’t selectively ignore it, either.
                Women have restrictions on what they can teach, and men do not.
                This doesn’t mean I think women are to be submissive to any and all men, what a joke. But we are not to be seditious and rebellious with those men who have been put in our lives as *spiritual* authority.
                A pastor or teacher has spiritual authority. Not the same kind of authority your husband has, blah blah blah. It feels tedious to explain that I don’t believe women should be subject to all men.
                I hope you know what I’m saying.

                • Jennifer says:

                  Yes, I know what you’re saying, and I disagree. I believe Paul was either speaking of one rebellious woman, or a particular type of harmful authority. I strongly do not believe that women are restricted in teaching and men aren’t, nor do I believe every female issue is appropriate for men.

                  • Sara says:

                    I guess I should clarify. I don’t think women are necessarily restricted in what they can teach, but *how* they can teach. Mrs. W’s example of a woman telling a man how to run his house is more inappropriate, according to my understanding of Scripture, than a male church leader speaking about modesty.

  21. Tara says:

    I agree with Valerie!
    Each is responsible for his or her own actions. Men for their thoughts and women for their choice in clothing. For anyone to think that CJ Mahaney in this video is placing all of the blame on women is absolutely absurd. It is a simple admonition to women who profess to be believers to help out their brothers in Christ by taking great care in their clothing by dressing modestly.
    Thank you Kelly for posting this.

  22. Karin says:

    Thank you for sharing this video…Thank you so much. It was great, great, encouragement and conviction.

  23. younglady says:

    I think it’s extremely important as ladies to dress modestly.im only 18 years old and i started wearing skirts all the time about a year ago. And i’ve noticed a big change. Im public schooled and since i’ve started wearing skirts boys dont act peverted and dissrespectful around me like they use to.(thank the Lord!) i believe how we dress can have an effect on guys. Afterall they think differently than women do. So its our place to dress appropriatley and let God take care of the guys minds.
    Its equally the guys and ladies to do their part in whats right.

  24. gail says:

    keep it real ladies God expects us to help our brothers by being modest in our dress if the word said it as christians we are to obey GOD

Leave a Reply

Dissenting comments are welcome only in the spirit of "iron sharpening iron"; hateful or angry responses will be removed at my discretion. You may add your gravatar (image) at Gravatar

WordPress Themes